Overcards and a downswing

damaniac · #1 05-12-2005, 10:56 AM

Been downswining the last couple of days, so I wanted to check a few hands. Nothing terribly interesting at the moment, but of course one of the toughest areas is overcards, especially OOP. I think I used to bet too much with OC's...now I don't know. Here's a variety of situations, none of which is really terribly interesting but I want to see if everything is standard (minus where I state I misplayed them).

Hand 1: My foe is LA-P, according to PT, but I saw him cap KTo and go wild with it on a K99 flop, and then continued crazed aggression when an A came on the turn. I really should fold this somewhere, but where?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, BB calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

Hand 2: I took a more passive line this time. Villain was somewhat loose, no better reads than that. Should I fire another barrel here?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, CO folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Hand 3:
I should check/fold the turn here right?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero...

Hand 4: I raised b/c the button was somewhat loose and the blinds were tight. I thought there was a reasonable chance I could get it 3-way against a fairly tight and quite loose limper (the bettor is the loose one I believe). The one thing I had seen him do was c/r and bet the whole way with 77 on a K33 board or something, so he was capable of aggression without top pair. Still, even with a big pot, easy fold cuz I got nothing right?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds, Button folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

brettbrettr · #2 05-12-2005, 11:17 AM

Hand 1, why are you calling this river?
Hand 2, HU I normally bet the turn. Not all the time though.
Hand 3, yeah, its a small pot, I don't have a problem letting it go on the turn.
Hand 4, If the button's loose I think you might want to limp pre-flop. If he's tight, by all means, buy the button.

trentcroad · #3 05-12-2005, 11:24 AM

I think its a natural reaction to examine overcards during a downswing because its so frustrating when ur loosing and simply missing the flop. Just hang in there.

Hand 1 fold river
2 & 3 I think its dependent on the player as to whether u bet again or give up.

damaniac · #4 05-12-2005, 11:28 AM

For clarification, I didn't notice on the AKs hand I picked up a turn flush draw (I mean I didn't notice it when I posted it, I certainly hope I noticed it while playing), so I guess that is less interesting. If it isn't a club, A, or K, fold to the bet?

NomadCat · #5 05-12-2005, 11:29 AM

Hand 1 I probably fold the river, everything else I play the same. It really looks like villian has a pocket pair.

Hand 2 I think I probably fire another round on the turn. Being OOP with overcards blows and it's hard to figure out what the villian is drawing to, though, if he doesn't already have a hand.

Hand 3 should probably be a check-fold, but I suck and would probably bet-out again hoping to fold KQ or something else with 6 outs.

In hand 4, if villian is as aggressive as you say he is, he may make this bet with just a flush draw or a 9. It might be spewing, but I'd raise to get it heads-up. I'm probably checking behind any non-J or -K turn, especially a diamond. I'd check any one-pair hand on the river, in case he actually has an ace. If check raised on the turn, I'd probably fold (Unless it's the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]).

Again, I stink at this game and would love for someone else to tell me where I'm wrong.

trentcroad · #6 05-12-2005, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For clarification, I didn't notice on the AKs hand I picked up a turn flush draw (I mean I didn't notice it when I posted it, I certainly hope I noticed it while playing), so I guess that is less interesting. If it isn't a club, A, or K, fold to the bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much, this quys prob got some pocket pair of maybe he snagged the Jack.
After he bets the turn u can safely fold unimproved on the river.

colgin · #7 05-12-2005, 12:00 PM

Unless there is something you are not telling us about the villain, the river call in Hand 1 is pretty bad.

Bill C · #8 05-12-2005, 12:05 PM

Abbreviations are daunting. What are:
OOP?
OP?

bc

brettbrettr · #9 05-12-2005, 12:10 PM

out of position
original poster

molawn2mo · #10 05-12-2005, 12:19 PM

FWIW... Not to hijack this thread but... one thing that I rarely see discussed on the forum is "our table image" as it relates to the play of the hand. I suspect this may be due to multi-tabler's difficulties in tracking same. That said, I do think that many of these type hands are seriously impacted by our table image moreso than our opponents stats.

1. I find the most interesting. After raising the flop and assuming that I haven't been over playing recent hands, I like the semi-bluff turn raise - call a 3 bet and fold to expected river bet UI. If you are just called on the turn, you are likely to see the river for free.

2. Seems ok to me

3. You could bet fold the turn. MP3 cc standards could be Axs/KQ. Check fold OK, too.

4. The only way I enter this hand is if I have owned this table and then I raise. As played, this may be a significant leak.

Ah... but I suck.