With KK, how much do I reraise button's raise preflop, and why?

rikz · #1 05-12-2005, 01:43 AM

Villain is Tight Aggressive preflop, and generally more passive post flop.

I have enough of a read to think he would not reraise me with JJ or lower.

I don't know enough about him to rule out QQ, KK (unlikely since I have 2), AK, or the dreaded AA.

So my question is this. Once I'm raised, how much do I reraise and why?

Specifically, what's my plan if he pushes against my reraise?

And what's my plan if he calls my reraise then rags flop (as opposed to an A, a K, a Q, or TJQ on the flop, in which case my read + a push by villain would lead me to fold versus any but the K flop)?

I don't like calling at all, but does anybody just call to see if a K or an A flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP1 ($56.1)
MP2 ($44.55)
MP3 ($129.55)
CO ($134.53)
Button Villain ($44.75)
SB ($67.15)
BB ($20.2)
UTG ($10.6)
Hero ($139.05)
UTG+2 ($51)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 5 folds, Button Villain raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero raises to ... 

How much? And why?

TheWorstPlayer · #2 05-12-2005, 01:49 AM

I just call against a TAG.

joewatch · #3 05-12-2005, 02:38 AM

I agree. Call the reraise.

tripdad · #4 05-12-2005, 03:08 AM

it is important to know what your stats for the session were. it seems you were running hot, so i would assume you were raising quite frequently. even a TAG will re-raise somewhat light if he thinks you are LAG.

at any rate, i make it $18 to go, and call his all-in should he push(he can't call here). you have him covered 3-fold, and i am simply willing to lose that much if he has AA and we get it all-in before the flop.

ni han!

Suntzu00000 · #5 05-12-2005, 04:16 AM

Tripdad is right, you need to pop this guy back. AA vs. KK is not that likely. Reraise to $18. Also, we know your read on this guy is TAG, but what is your table image. How long have you been playing with this guy? Have you been TAG yourself? Do you often raise with hands like AK,KQs,AQ,AJ,JJ,TT? You most likely do. If this guy is a solid player, and is observant, then he is probably reraising you in position with a hand that can beat big broadway cards. RERAISE.

kongo_totte · #6 05-12-2005, 06:24 AM

Call. If he is a TAG he is very likely folding QQ-JJ to a 3-raise. Basically, a 3-raise will allow him to make the percect play. QQ-JJ is folding (if he is a tag) and AA is pushing. I agree I loose my stack on a rag flop against A A, but you also want to maximize value if you are ahead.

subzero · #7 05-12-2005, 08:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
at any rate, i make it $18 to go, and call his all-in should he push(he can't call here). you have him covered 3-fold, and i am simply willing to lose that much if he has AA and we get it all-in before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this line. Besides, I want to regain control of the hand. Let him call my reraise.

bort411 · #8 05-12-2005, 08:26 AM

I also like just calling here. Reraising just defines your hand and makes it easy for villian to get away from anything but AA.

I'm calling then check raising a non-ace flop.

sh3nyg · #9 05-12-2005, 09:00 AM

I like the re-raise here to $18 here for a couple reasons. One, you have to establish control of the hand. Two, you have to get a better sense of what he has, right now we really don't have enough info. If he calls (he shouldn't), you know he doesn't have AA and you can play the flop accordingly. If he pushes, well, so be it. I'm certainly willing to call that move if necessary. If he folds, I'm ok with that too, I have no desire to have him hang around and catch an A.
If the flop comes rags he's probably pushing if he has JJ or QQ and folding with AK...so I would throw maybe $12-$15 out there and be happy either way (a fold or a push). If he just calls, it's foolish, unless he's holding AA which I've already decided preflop I'm ok with.

bort411 · #10 05-12-2005, 09:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the re-raise here to $18 here for a couple reasons. One, you have to establish control of the hand. Two, you have to get a better sense of what he has, right now we really don't have enough info. If he calls (he shouldn't), you know he doesn't have AA and you can play the flop accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If I'm Villian I'm certainly calling his reraise holding AA. Why wouldn't he just call and wait for Hero to throw more money at him on the flop with an inferior hand? With the amount Villian has behind him, Hero isn't getting anywhere close to the right odds to spike his set, and Hero's 2nd raise pretty much guarantees he'll be getting it all in on the flop.

This line really seems to be the best way to get worse hands to fold by defining your own hand, and makes it too easy for aces to double up.