Muck top pair + flush draw? - 1-2-2 NLHE

[Ulysses]

1-2-2. It's killed and is 20 to go. A couple of players call. One guy raises to 40. Ends up w/ 5 players seeing the flop for 40. Stacks range from 400-3000. 3 players involved here all have about 500.

Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

P1 checks. P2, who did no raising pre-flop, opens for 100. P3, who raised to 40, goes all-in for 500. Back to P1, who also did no raising pre-flop - thinks for a while and calls all-in for 500 as well.

P2 has Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] and also happens to have just enough chips to call all-in. P2 thinks.

What should P2 do?

[Guy McSucker]

It seems to me that the preflop raiser has either an overpair or a set of queens. As for the other caller, a flush draw is a likely possibility, and if so, it could be a better one that P2 has, so a fold is in order. Even if it's a smaller flush draw, it puts two further hearts out of action, and if the first player does indeed have a set, that doesn't leave a lot of outs for our hero. I would fold.

How wrong am I?

Against one player I can't see folding this hand, but against two who have both indicated a hand worth having, I can't see that you lose much by folding.

Guy.

[Ulysses]

Hmmmm.... I guess this wasn't as interesting as I thought. I'm just learning NL, so it was a pretty interesting hand for me, especially since it was my biggest pot so far.

P2 called. I was the guy in P1, with A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img].

A heart came on the turn and I was thrilled. A four came on the river to pair the board and my heart sank, but my flush held up against P2 and the initial all-in better, who I assume had AQ/KK/AA.

[ohnonotagain]

If you flop pair and a flush draw against *one* other player, you can reasonably sometimes *raise* all-in, since you may win if your opponent folds, and if he calls then you must have *either* the best hand *or* the best draw, since the only way he can have a bigger flush draw is if he has no pair.

However, the situation is *radically* different against *two* other players, since you can then be drawing almost dead if you are against the nut flush draw and e.g. a set or top two.

It is also a very different proposition to *call* all in in such a situation since you can only win by hitting. In the present case P2 may seem to be getting better than 2:1, but if the nut flush draw was out then his odds were much much worse.

Oh no!! Not again!