Should have waited for the turn to raise.

Fishlips_Jones · #1 05-11-2005, 03:26 PM

Reads: Table is generally Loose-Passive.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP2 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (15 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds, SB 3-bets, MP2 caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 23 BB

I don't think anyone folds, but after reviewing this hand I think calling the flop and raising the turn would be a better play.

Fishlips

@bsolute_luck · #2 05-11-2005, 03:32 PM

pot seems to big for anyone with a draw with that hand or anything to go anywhere. i think you played it fine.

pistol78 · #3 05-11-2005, 03:35 PM

I agree with you, The flop raise wont do much, Everyone behind you is still getting something like 11:1, SO even a Lone Ace can call, I like waiting the for the turn becasue then at least everyone behind you will only be getting *about* 7:1.

DMBFan23 · #4 05-11-2005, 03:36 PM

nah, flop raise goot. lots of turn cards kill action. players will pay now.

chipolino · #5 05-11-2005, 03:36 PM

I think this is one of those hands that you were gonna lose regardless of what you would have done. I don't think they would have fold for a raise on the turn. I probably would have played it the same way.

DMBFan23 · #6 05-11-2005, 03:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you, The flop raise wont do much, Everyone behind you is still getting something like 11:1, SO even a Lone Ace can call, I like waiting the for the turn becasue then at least everyone behind you will only be getting *about* 7:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

the key here is that 11:1 is not a profitable call for a lone ace, he effectively needs pot odds of somewhere around 15:1 to call due hero's redraws, and he needs even more if he factors in the times he's drawing to a split. also, there's no one behind him, so they've already called anyway.

he loses money if he pays off when hitting an ace, and he loses implied odds on boards like this because hero can slow down or (as he did) bail if things get hot after the scare card.

so while 11:1 and 4 outs might augur for a call, when you break it down A7 is making a really shitty call there.

I almost NEVER raise with a set with the intent of protecting my hand. it's all about the value baby.

EDIT: on the turn 11:1 would be good, because none of his outs are your outs. my bad. still, the concept applies on the flop, if not this particular flop

Aaron W. · #7 05-11-2005, 03:52 PM

No reason to wait because the pot is big, and there really isn't value to protecting on the turn because the pot is too big (if you just call, it's 10+ BB, meaning that you'll offer at least 11:1). Because the board is scary, so I don't know if you can guarantee that anyone will bet the turn (especially at a "loose-passive" table). It's better to milk out money while you can.

By the way, what is UTG+1 doing? Limp, cold-call, call preflop. Call the first flop bet, but fold when getting 23:1. I can't imagine what hand could be played that way.

gman420 · #8 05-11-2005, 04:07 PM

I like the idea of going for the turn raise with this board. You may save yourself the entire pot, and if it wasn't necessary you only cost yourself a few small bets by missing a raise on the flop.