Gigabet's HH and our SnG Strategy

[mythrilfox]

Giga, on the 54 hand, suppose the flop comes A54. How does your treatment of the hand change now? Does your making the most off this hand now supersede your concern for constructing that image?

[chopchoi]

#Game No : 2015276587
***** Hand History for Game 2015276587 *****
NL Hold'em $15000 Buy-in + $500 Entry Fee Trny:12010061 Level:5 Blinds(100/200) - Saturday, May 07, 22:21:45 EDT 2005
Table Step Higher 5 #1014153 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: cbristow ( $800 )
Seat 2: seepspp ( $1190 )
Seat 4: dj_dedrick ( $1170 )
Seat 5: genoa_st ( $1970 )
Seat 6: sjnjb ( $855 )
Seat 7: Evenkeal ( $1465 )
Seat 9: scoots_mc ( $1765 )
Seat 10: XLhomestead ( $785 )
Trny:12010061 Level:5
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Evenkeal [ 8d Qd ]
sjnjb folds.
Evenkeal is all-In [1465]
scoots_mc folds.
XLhomestead folds.
cbristow folds.
seepspp folds.
dj_dedrick folds.
genoa_st folds.
Evenkeal does not show cards.
Evenkeal wins 1765 chips
Game #2015278421 starts.


I'm curious about this hand. Here's my anaysis, please tell me where I need to look deeper, or if I miss the point entirely.

I think it is definately +ev. You're risking 1,465 chips to win 300. With 6 players left to act, I figure someone calls your push about 20% of the time (AK, JJ or better), and you'll probably win about 25% of the time that you are called. Just to keep it simple, We'll estimate F=24,000 CW=7325 CL=-21,975, for a positive ev of about 93 chips per hand.

Of course, the more you do it, the more you will get called, an since your ev comes from folds, it will go down very quickly. So you need to pick your spot. Is level 5 generally the best time to try it? also, are there other, less quantitative (more intuitive) reasons for the play?

[Gigabet]

That kind of flop is not really that valuable for my hand at this level, xls is not putting alot of chips in unless he can beat it, so if he is willing to put alot of chips in, I am just going to muck. If that board flopped, I would just play the flop fast, and then ck fold the turn or river.

[Degen]

i think you missed his point

say the flop was one perfectly telegraphed for extracting his chips...say A23 and he had AA.


Then would you play it out or try and not have your hand shown to protect the image?


Andre

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

You've lost me. In your first two sentences, it sounds like you are saying you are playing this way so that he will think you are weak and give you action later on when you raise with a good hand. Then in your last sentence, you seem to say that you think this play will earn you respect when you try to bully him with trash.

[/ QUOTE ]

They're not incompatible. All things being equal, he'd rather steal on the flop than PF because you're going to get more chips. In a setting where you're likely to get relatively few good stealing attempts (because your opponents know they need to be stealing a lot, too) you'd like to get the maximum when you do steal.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
i think you missed his point

say the flop was one perfectly telegraphed for extracting his chips...say A23 and he had AA.


Then would you play it out or try and not have your hand shown to protect the image?


Andre

[/ QUOTE ]

Giga has responded to this elsewhere in this thread, saying that if he flopped the nuts or near nuts he would be willing to have his hand revealed if he could get his opponent to put vast quantities of chips in the pot.

[Gigabet]

[ QUOTE ]
Please let me know if you'd rather not answer so that I can't assume you just haven't read my post

[/ QUOTE ]

U just have to do whatever works for you.

[mjm]

I recently saw a Fossilman lecture when he advocated a style similar to what Giga seems to play here. Isn't the principal:

You raise to the level where any villan feels he will be playing for his whole stack.

Potential villan may feel you are comitted to playing for your entire stack (you are not).

All villans think they will wait for their monster to pick hero off (someone will get one soon & they all secretly want it to be someone else who takes him on!)

Hero picks up blinds all over the place & doesn't have to defend his own.

By the time a monster arrives, hero has command over the table (and healthy chip lead) and villans find that hero is not committed with his pre-flop/flop raises at all. (Plus there will be the occasions when the flop hits our hero and he's got the monster cracked anyway).

When Hero bails out of the hand, villan feels unlucky that they got the monster on the hand the hero had nothing.

The process begins again.

The real fun is when two such hero's are at the table!

I'm sure it's not all as simple as this and I am doing a diservice to our hero and the villans. But what I have taken from this thread is to show aggression both pre-flop and on the flop. An opponent will need a very good hand both pre-flop and post-flop not to fold, that doesn't happen often and when it does you can bail out at this point and your still in the tourney.

To the players questioning if giga's tactics will work at lower levels. I play a lot of SNG's at $109 and $215 (suprisingly with reasonable success)I'm not very good, so you can forget your 'out of position' stuff, if you raise and i've got anything down to A-Jo, i'm putting you all in!! Save your Q-4 for the good players to which your positional raise means something!

Well done Giga!!

[iMsoLucky0]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I think the texture of the tourney would have been so different with Gigabet in the game that neither of these hands would have been considered "key" hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. This statement is the most amazing statement of this thread for me.

[JoeTable]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see a fold from AK against his Q9. That said, I don't see that fold in 90+% of the tournys I play, and it's certainly not there in a 10+1.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I reading this correctly in that some are assuming the UTG raiser was holding AK when Giga raised with Q9?