How close are these 2 calls?

PokerBob · #1 05-10-2005, 05:43 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $3. MP3 posts a blind of $3. CO posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.......

brettbrettr · #2 05-10-2005, 05:46 PM

I think both are fine. The flop one seems closer to me, but you're getting 8:1 immediate odds which is a 5 outer, no?

SippinSoma · #3 05-10-2005, 05:52 PM

PF looks fine. On the flop you're getting 8:1 with ~4-5 outs. How about raising for a free card and hand protection (crossing your fingers of course).

mute · #4 05-10-2005, 05:56 PM

I'll be generous and give you 4 outs, meaning you will need 11:1 to justify a call. Lets say on average one of the blinds calls, you would be getting 9:1. With some implied odds, then this would be close. However one of the blinds might checkraise, and your implied odds are hurt when you hit and lose. Since four outs may be a bit generous, I would fold.

Preflop looks fine, and I dont think that's close.

wrto4556 · #5 05-10-2005, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think both are fine. The flop one seems closer to me, but you're getting 8:1 immediate odds which is a 5 outer, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

47/5=9ish...but implied odds give us a little help.

The problem is any J is pretty scary..especially the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop call is easy, imo.

shadow29 · #6 05-10-2005, 06:01 PM

PF is good.

Flop I think you can fold safely.

4 outs should do it for your hand, meaning you'll need 10.5:1 to make the call. You're getting 8:1. Not sure if SB and BB will stick around. I think that at least one will, meaning you're getting 9:1. It makes it closer, but there's still a chance that you improve and still lose to A9, A8, etc.

27offsooot · #7 05-10-2005, 06:22 PM

PF is closer to a raise than a fold. I'm dropping that flop b/c i don't particularly like some of my outs.

NomadCat · #8 05-10-2005, 06:47 PM

I think I like a raise PF with all of the posters showing no strength in front of you. It's probably pretty close between that and limping though.

I'd see a flop with this on the button with 4 limpers in front at every opportunity.

Calling the flop would depend a lot on a read on the blinds. A checkraise behind you would really suck. I think I would just lean towards a fold, but I'm also running really bad right now, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Guruman · #9 05-10-2005, 06:52 PM

I think a raise pre-flop is nothing but a pot-sweetener for the hands that are better than yours. Most people in this far will pay one more SB into this pot to see a flop with almost anything.

NomadCat · #10 05-10-2005, 07:40 PM

This is by no means an auto-raise (and is at the bottom of the range of hands I'd do this with), and I wouldn't expect anyone to fold to the raise. I'd be putting one extra sb into the pot to get at least 4 (most likely 5 or 6) extra sb's into the pot when my hand is probably above average compared to my opponents hands. This will also tie them to the pot should I get a flop I really like. If I don't get a strong piece of the flop (such as the flop in OP's hand) I can hopefully get a free look at the turn to improve. And I have absolutely no problem dumping this should the flop totally miss and there's any heat in front of me.