WPT on TV

[12Motion]

Last Sunday the very first final table of the world poker tour was shown on the travel channel. Me and my friends made a big night out of it. We ordered pizza and got very excited to see world class player go at it.

What we got was something totally different. I think watch that tournament showed me more god awful play then I have ever seen. I saw some of the worst calls, worst folds and WORST checks of my life. It's almost like every single player at the table was weak tight, or weak loose. I couldn't believe that these people where playing for 500,000$. I would love to sit at that table.

I know you want to hear examples so I will give you a few. Gus Hansen was the big chip leader and was raising many below par hands (Q 9). This raising isn't what upset me, that’s what aggressive players do. The reason I say this is in the show we are only shown about 1/10 of the hands. After seeing so few hands even I can say that Gus is a looser player then most. Kassim Deeb should easily know that Gus is loose because he has seen him play ten times more hands. Anyway here is the hand that offended me so. Gus raises with 7,7. Deeb has Q,Q (I don't remember the exact position but I remember thinking Deeb should go all in over the raise and fold out the other people). Deeb simply calls the raise, which was around 70k. The flop comes 8, K, 8 and Gus bets it. Deep studies and cold calls. Again I really think this was a raise fold situation and with a hand like QQ against a very loose player a raise is the move. The turn is a blank and Gus checks it. To my astonishment Deeb CHECKS! I cannot believe he could check after Gus shows that kind of weakness. The river is a 7 giving Gus 7s full of 8s. Gus bets, and Deeb simply calls and loses lots of chips. I have never seen a hand played worse. I am very sure that Deeb could have taken that hand down if he played it right.

Another few things that got to me was seeing Gus call 9, 7 offsuit preflop. He proceeded to flop top two pair and win the pot. The announcers said the following. "See you need to give Gus Hansen allot of respect for taking a chance like that, he called with a very poor hand preflop to take a gamble on flopping a monster. Flopping monsters like that is the way to get paid off in this game. My hats of you Hansen." I understand that they say these things to glamorize the game and make it seem like everything is a good play but I disagree. I think calling a silly hand like that is a simple bad play!

John Juanda played very tight that tourny and only raised hands like AQ and AK. I guess I was the only one who noticed because when he went all in with AJ Gus Hansen called with QT.

Oh yes I almost forgot the worst hand ever. Deeb decided to make a move with a powerhouse hand 6h 3h. He made a large raise, that Gus called with an awful Qh 5h. The flop came 4h, Kh, 7c. That’s right they both flopped flush draws. Gus bet the flop because he bets every flop. Then Deeb made what I think might be the most mind boggling call ever. The turn gave a blank and both players checked (haha and I thought Deeb was setting Gus up for a bluff. I guess instead he was setting HIMSELF up for a fall.) The river gave Gus a pair of Q. He bet, and FINALLY Deeb makes a very large raise. Well he waited to long because Gus called and won.

Did anyone else watch this garbage? I really hope Phil Helmuth wont disappoint me. He is my favorite player.

[ohkanada]

I found the play interesting. Some of the open-limping was very bizarre. One guy opened with 87s on the button and flopped a monster against Nguyen..

Some of your facts on the hands you list are wrong.

When Deeb had QQ, Hansen had 88. I don't believe the flop was paired but it was King high. I do agree that Deeb should have re-raised preflop and raised on the flop. I am sure he planned to raise either on the flop or the turn but was scared off because of the King.

When Deeb had 63s and raised, the flop had only 1 heart. Deeb had a gutshot draw and the turn was the 2nd heart giving them both a flush draw. Deeb should have either folded on the flop or raised if he decided to continue with the bluff.

I think limping with 97o after 1 limper is shakey at best. Claiming Hansen played the hand perfectly was a bit much.

I don't remember Juanda going all-in with AJ and being called by Hansens QT. Deeb raised all-in with AK and was called by Hansens QT. On the final hand Juanda re-raised with AJ and then called Hansens all-in raise with KK.

Ken Poklitar

[12Motion]

Yes you are correct on all those counts. I ment to say my memory isn't perfect and I could be wrong. But I still think it was some of the worst poker I have every watched.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Do you usually play no-limit & tournaments, or are you a limit ring game player?

I ask that because if you'r applying standard ring-game limit concepts to a No-limit tournament, you're way off.

No limit tourneys are about aggression, position, and stack size, especially in the later rounds. Most great NL players will tell you the cards are incidental.

In limit, you'd never raise when the flop missed you just to "defend your money". In no-limit, you better be prepared to defend your money or you'll get run over by a guy who plays like Hansen (Doyle Brunson??) I've watched and played enough NL tourneys recently to realize that if you play good, tight, ring game strategy in a NL game you're going to be at a disadvantage.

Oh, yeah, and 4-handed - Q9o is a pretty damn strong hand.

[ohkanada]

Agreed.

I don't know if I agree with the original poster about the worst poker ever but I will say that there were several bad plays. Of course it is easy for US to say what should have been done because we see the cards and the results. I think we also saw some good plays. Juandas call with KQ when Hansen bet the turn is one that comes to mind.

It would be interesting to know how long the final table actually lasted and how many hands were played compared to what we saw.

As an avid NL tourney player I will be watching all of these events and seeing how some of the best play their hands.

Ken Poklitar

[TimTimSalabim]

You both had it partially right... QQ v 88, and the flop *was* paired... K77. The 8 on the river gave Gus a full house.

[12Motion]

I have played my fair share of no-limit. I am not expert but I know a bad play when I see it. In my opinion I think if Deeb played his QQ right. That is agressive. He would have won a monster pot. Here is what I think would happen. If Deeb re-raised Gus preflop he would have called. However if Deeb played back on the flop I think Gus would have folded. If Deeb bet the Turn I think for sure Gus would have folded. Deeb missed two chances to win the pot. When I get pocket queens I say the words Bet and Raise alot more then Check and Call. There is a right and wrong way to play a hand like that against an agressive player. He chose the wrong way.

[bernie]

i put a thread about this tourney a little below. in this same forum. title something like 'badbeat? how about bad play'

the QQ v 88 hand. it was a paired flop. and deeb played it terrible.

the 36s hand. he may have taken it down if he bets the turn. he waited too long.

one thing about shorthanded n/l, the play will seem looser than normal. you cant grind a win in tourneys. this is why you dont see many grinders winning them. you have to take risks when your in the last 7 or less. that's how you win.

tourney play is a little different animal than ring game grinder.

b

[bernie]

spot on. i couldnt agree more. mainly on your preflop analysis.

however, the postflop plays were horrendous in certain hands.

b

[Jesse Richman]

I agree on all the other analysis so far, but am I the only one who like's Deeb's play on the QQ vs 88 hand? With a flop of K77, Deeb's in a classic way ahead / way behind situation. Check-calling seems to be the idea way to get out of this losing the minimum with a hand thats too good to fold here while capitalizing on Hansen's obvious overaggressive tendancies. Checking the turn seems likely to induce a bluff from Hansen on the river with many hands that might fold to a turn bet from Deeb.