I'm getting killed with on epair (thanks to SSH??)

therockofgibraltar · #1 05-08-2005, 04:21 AM

SSH has helped me a lot but not with playing one pair! Before I read SSH, I had studied Ciaffones MLH and pretty much always folded one pair when raised in turn. Didn't have any troubles. After reading SSH, "thay are fooling around", "you have outs even if he has two pair". One pair just seems to stuck my hand!! What shoud I do? Just go back to fold because currently having 100BB downswing and I have lost 250BB wihth one pair!! Obviously I am folding too little.

It's very har emotionally to play tight and then when you finally get a hand worth playing after watching 20 hands, you just can't let it go when flopping TPTK.

Hand1:
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

I think I played this OK, he just got lucky in the river and got a straight (like they always do with me).

Hand2:
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
6 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, CO calls, Hero caps, SB calls, CO calls.

I cap because I have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], otherwise I would just call.

Turn: (10 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (13 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB raises, CO calls, Hero calls.

I knew I was beat but that Miller is always whispering in my ear "don't fold for one more bet". I NEVER fold river one more bet [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Final Pot: 19 BB

If there is a raise in turn and I call, should I "always" check-fold the river if I don't improve?
Never with one opponent? Always when multiple opponents?

If I get raised in turn and face only one opponent he might be bullying me around, right? But if there are many players, he has legimate hand?

Help, I am a real sucker with these one pair hands!

Ianco15 · #2 05-08-2005, 04:28 AM

Hand one:
You absolutely need to raise this preflop. The rest of the hand seems standard. People raise the turn with all sorts of crap: draws, middle pair, ect. They try to get tricky. Plus, like you said, even if villan has a hand like 2 pair you still have outs. You definitely should not fold this.

Hand two:
It looks bleak, but you are getting 18-1 on the final river call. You can't fold with those odds. I think you played both hands correctly, you just lost.

Goodnews · #3 05-08-2005, 04:34 AM

Hand 1:

SB complete is disgusting, then failing to raise again is jsut as bad. On the flop, your hand is not very vulnerable, only to two overcards. I would check with the intention of raising to trap the remaining players. Your turn play is terribly weak, 3-bet your top pair.

Final note: I doubt anyone would stick around if they were facing two bets preflop.

Hand 2:

Preflop and flop look ok to me. I'd raise the turn, and call down if I get 3 bet. The river is a little worriesome because SB wakes up, but there is nothing you can do but pay off in this situation. You only needed to win this pot 5% of the time to break even.

*Please critique my analysis*

Goodnews · #4 05-08-2005, 04:35 AM

are you really advocating limping in with pocket queens?

Ianco15 · #5 05-08-2005, 04:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
are you really advocating limping in with pocket queens?

[/ QUOTE ]
OH WOW. I didn't even see that. I need to edit my post accordingly.

bottomset · #6 05-08-2005, 06:19 AM

take a couple days off, many downswings are user-created or at least user-aided .. i just went through a 175BB one, but at least 40-75BB were my fault, i was gonna lose during the stretch, but i lost a lot more than i had to

when things aren't going good, its not uncommon for play to become progressively worse

blackaces13 · #7 05-08-2005, 06:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your turn play is terribly weak, 3-bet your top pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to completely disagree. Hero has already 3 bet the button on the flop after button raised. Then hero leads the turn and is raised again by the button. This would set off serious alarm bells in my head and 3 betting here seems way over the top.

Terribly weak? Not at all. Not even SSH advises 3 betting 1-pair after being raised on the turn by a typical opponent. To my knowledge no one does. Say what you will about not raising QQ preflop but to say that the turn is a mandatory 3-bet is ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
Final note: I doubt anyone would stick around if they were facing two bets preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is Party .5/1. Almost all of them are cold calling 2 back.

RandBriscoe · #8 05-08-2005, 07:05 AM

FWIW, you're not likely to have lost 250BB with one pair. Check that box that says "Only Show Hands that were not Folded". Any time you have 22 and fold on the flop it will count the .50 it cost to call the BB.

Further, 100BB happens at least 2-3 a month for me. I'm in the middle of a 124BB downswing now. It happens..

@bsolute_luck · #9 05-08-2005, 07:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I played this OK, he just got lucky in the river and got a straight (like they always do with me).

[/ QUOTE ]
sorry to laugh at your expense but...HA HA FRICKIN' HA! i felt the same way last night too, dude. I feel your pain. others have pretty much commented on your play. After a night of this, continue to chant "I will win in the long run, I will win in the long run" and you will. the plusses will greatly outnumber the negatives by suckouts.

i remember i had a horrible night and got pocket queens in the BB sorta like you and thought "man, don't raise, you know an A or K will come and you'll lose"...bah i raised, an A came on the flop, i said "&#*&", got a Queen on the turn and won HUGE! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

take a break for a day or so. come back when it's fun again and have fresh perspective. continue to forcibly play when you have the "don't be aggressive because i will get sucked out on again" will only lessen your winnings when you need to focus on winning the max.

good luck. keep the head up.

tunnel · #10 05-08-2005, 08:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I knew I was beat but that Miller is always whispering in my ear "don't fold for one more bet". I NEVER fold river one more bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you have to call this.

Nevertheless, your thoughts are quite similar to mine after I had tried to applicate this concept from SSH. I began to listen to Ed Miller who was whispering in my ears, too (and still is). And my results began to get worse precisely at the same time.

So meanwhile I tightened up again in these situations. Possibly you have to pay attention not to take the idea of calling "for just one more bet" too far, but the hands you posted don't indicate this. I found it interesting anyway that Ed Miller takes a seemingly different point of view here:

http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/c...iller0505.html