Loose Live 15/30 game

bathroompants · #1 05-07-2005, 05:19 AM

I play in a pretty loose 15/30 game: 5-6+ people to the flop regularly.

What are your actions throughout this hand...

I'm on the button with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and there are 5 limpers in from of me.

Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB bets everyone calls - your move?

turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

flop better bets out again, again what would you do?

river blank.

thanks

spoohunter · #2 05-07-2005, 05:37 AM

How many callers on the turn? If I knew there was going to be a river blank I guess I'm not pumping for value : )

bathroompants · #3 05-07-2005, 05:48 AM

oops forgot that, everyone also called on the turn

whitelime · #4 05-07-2005, 05:54 AM

I think this is an easy call on both the flop and turn.

Raising the turn for "value" is a bad play here. Here is why. Let's assume that you are drawing to a nut flush that wins even if the board pairs on the river. Your raise will have an expectation of $6 (someone double check this). Now let's examine what could go wrong:

1) Someone is drawing to a higher flush.

2) Someone will make a full house if your flush card pairs the board.

3) Initial bettor will reraise knocking some people out in between.

4) Increases your variance.

Notice that when your flush loses on the river, not only do you lose money from the initial raise, but also additional bets as well. I didn't count your two-pair/trips as outs in this example. However, even those don't make this a raise on the turn IMO. Easy call on both the flop and turn.

spoohunter · #5 05-07-2005, 05:59 AM

You shouldn't really fear the higher flush since it's coming runner runner and your two pair / trips outs are worth alot. Especially the trip outs.

bathroompants · #6 05-07-2005, 01:08 PM

Ok, I did call both the flop and the turn. Would raising the flop for a free card on the river be better? These players tend to fall for it quite a bit but with so many people in the hand I wasn't sure how often I get away with it. I kind of thought I was too passive with the whole thing, but I guess it seems that it was marginal either way.

One more question - On the river he bets again, and it folds to me. I figured my pair of 5s 6 kicker is beat all the time in this position but would you call anyway because of the potsize?

steveyz · #7 05-07-2005, 01:26 PM

call the flop, call the turn, fold the river or check through if checked to.

steveyz · #8 05-07-2005, 01:31 PM

I would not raise for a free card because if I don't hit a spade or improve to two pair or trips I'm folding.

I don't think it would be that wrong to raise if you think there's a very minimal chance of being re-raised and everyone will actually check to you on the turn.

If you had a better pair, I'd be more inclined to raise because your hand will have more showdown value unimproved. I.e. if you had J9s on a K95 flop with 1 of your suit.

steveyz · #9 05-07-2005, 01:33 PM

By the way, although the 2+2 mantra is raise or fold, there's nothing wrong with calling when you are likely behind but the pot odds dictate trying to draw out. There's no need to feel like you played this too weakly.