2 hands, How can I play them better?

[ImJWish]

2-4 nl game on stars, 10 handed, Hero has a fairly tight image, has shown some solid hands down. villian is pretty tight, calls a lot of bets. Both have over 600 to start.

Hero dealt 8Ts in MP+2, folds to him, Hero raises to 12. Villain calls on button. BB Calls.
Flop: JQK 2 diamonds, 1 spade. BB checks, Hero bets 20, Villain calls.
Turn: 9s. Hero bets 50, Villain calls.
River: 2h. Whats my line and why?

I figure Villian for a straight 50 percent of the time here, busted diamond draw for and/or two pair 15-30 percent of the time and some weak king 10 percent of the time. The other times he could potentailly be holding a set i guess.

I was thinking between a 1/2 pot blocking bet to induce a call from the two pair/set/kings or a check/call move to get a bluff out of the diamond draw/lose less if he has AT. Im not sure which line to take. I guess this is a situation where I have to take account how aggressive he might be?



Second hand:
Hero dealt KQ in the SB, same game, 5 call, Hero completes, BB checks. Villain is in the SB, terrible player, calls a lot of bets. MP is a pretty weak tight. Villian and MP1 have 400 to start, I have them covered.
FLop: AQQ rainbow.
Hero checks, MP leads for 20, Villian min-raises. Whats my line? How can I extract the most out of Villian and MP. Should I stop and go here or raise this flop? why? I'm leaning towards stop and go... but I feel like that gives my hand away. Is this just one of those inconveniences of playing up front?

[ImJWish]

[ QUOTE ]
2-4 nl game on stars, 10 handed, Hero has a fairly tight image, has shown some solid hands down. villian is pretty tight, calls a lot of bets. Both have over 600 to start.

Hero dealt 8Ts in MP+2, folds to him, Hero raises to 12. Villain calls on button. BB Calls.
Flop: JQK 2 diamonds, 1 spade. BB checks, Hero bets 20, Villain calls.
Turn: 9s. Hero bets 50, Villain calls.
River: 2h. Whats my line and why?

I figure Villian for a straight 50 percent of the time here, busted diamond draw for and/or two pair 15-30 percent of the time and some weak king 10 percent of the time. The other times he could potentailly be holding a set i guess.

I was thinking between a 1/2 pot blocking bet to induce a call from the two pair/set/kings or a check/call move to get a bluff out of the diamond draw/lose less if he has AT. Im not sure which line to take. I guess this is a situation where I have to take account how aggressive he might be?



Second hand:
Hero dealt KQ in the SB, same game, 5 call, Hero completes, BB checks. Villain is in the SB, terrible player, calls a lot of bets. MP is a pretty weak tight. Villian and MP1 have 400 to start, I have them covered.
FLop: AQQ rainbow.
Hero checks, MP leads for 20, Villian min-raises. Whats my line? How can I extract the most out of Villian and MP. Should I stop and go here or raise this flop? why? I'm leaning towards stop and go... but I feel like that gives my hand away. Is this just one of those inconveniences of playing up front?

[/ QUOTE ]



Heh, Villian in the second game is on the Button, the SB would be me...lol

[PokerSlut]

Given that you already checked the flop to start out on the second hand, I'd say just smooth call and hope to get more money in the pot from the player left to act, then lead the turn. If it were me, I might lead out on the flop as the most common action for someone with a Q would be to check/call or check/raise that flop.

[RoboRob]

First hand the best bet is to check and determine if he has the A 10 or not but this will get you more money because he is more likely to bet a large variety of hands. You also don't worry about getting raised then and having to make a tough decision.

[TrailofTears]

Hand 1: I like a Check-call here, for the whole "win more when ahead, lose less when behind blah blah blah" thing, and the possibility of a missed diamond draw bluff (while unlikely) is nice. I don't think a value bet is terrible here, though, so don't be too upset with either line.

Hand 2: Smooth call here is fine here, but I prefer leading at this pot from the get-go. Now your hand is transparent no matter what you do, ya know?

-T

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
2-4 nl game on stars, 10 handed, Hero has a fairly tight image, has shown some solid hands down. villian is pretty tight, calls a lot of bets. Both have over 600 to start.

Hero dealt 8Ts in MP+2, folds to him, Hero raises to 12. Villain calls on button. BB Calls.
Flop: JQK 2 diamonds, 1 spade. BB checks, Hero bets 20, Villain calls.
Turn: 9s. Hero bets 50, Villain calls.
River: 2h. Whats my line and why?

I figure Villian for a straight 50 percent of the time here, busted diamond draw for and/or two pair 15-30 percent of the time and some weak king 10 percent of the time. The other times he could potentailly be holding a set i guess.

I was thinking between a 1/2 pot blocking bet to induce a call from the two pair/set/kings or a check/call move to get a bluff out of the diamond draw/lose less if he has AT. Im not sure which line to take. I guess this is a situation where I have to take account how aggressive he might be?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost zero chance he has AT. Slightly bigger chance he has a ten. Another $50-70 value bet. Fold to an all-in or an enormous reraise, of course.



[ QUOTE ]
Second hand:
Hero dealt KQ in the SB, same game, 5 call, Hero completes, BB checks. Villain is in the SB, terrible player, calls a lot of bets. MP is a pretty weak tight. Villian and MP1 have 400 to start, I have them covered.
FLop: AQQ rainbow.
Hero checks, MP leads for 20, Villian min-raises. Whats my line? How can I extract the most out of Villian and MP. Should I stop and go here or raise this flop? why? I'm leaning towards stop and go... but I feel like that gives my hand away. Is this just one of those inconveniences of playing up front?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flat call flop = g00t. Let BB bet turn, see if he can trap button for another bet. Then check-raise, you'll lose whichever of them doesn't have a queen but that was inevitable anyway. You want to get enough money in there that whoever has the other queen will be all-in on the river with a comfortable bet. 40 flop, 60 turn c/r to 180/200, 160 river.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2-4 nl game on stars, 10 handed, Hero has a fairly tight image, has shown some solid hands down. villian is pretty tight, calls a lot of bets. Both have over 600 to start.

Hero dealt 8Ts in MP+2, folds to him, Hero raises to 12. Villain calls on button. BB Calls.
Flop: JQK 2 diamonds, 1 spade. BB checks, Hero bets 20, Villain calls.
Turn: 9s. Hero bets 50, Villain calls.
River: 2h. Whats my line and why?

I figure Villian for a straight 50 percent of the time here, busted diamond draw for and/or two pair 15-30 percent of the time and some weak king 10 percent of the time. The other times he could potentailly be holding a set i guess.

I was thinking between a 1/2 pot blocking bet to induce a call from the two pair/set/kings or a check/call move to get a bluff out of the diamond draw/lose less if he has AT. Im not sure which line to take. I guess this is a situation where I have to take account how aggressive he might be?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost zero chance he has AT. Slightly bigger chance he has a ten. Another $50-70 value bet. Fold to an all-in or an enormous reraise, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, thought villain was BB and acted before you. Since villain is button, you definitely want to check and let him fire at the pot with a missed draw.

[ImJWish]

hand 1: I elected to bet out half the pot on the river because in the end, I did put him on high cards and a possible two pair and i thought he would check behind. I got minraised and I elected to call. He showed AT thank god he played that poorer than I did

hand2. I called the flop, bet 1/2 the pot on the turn, MP deliberated and folded, Villain raised again, I pushed, I took the pot.

Thanks for the responses. it was very helpful. If anyone has anymore input, feel free to reply.