how loose can you play on the flop?

[Osric]

I have no hand to use as an example, so I'll just lay out a scenario. My main question here is how close do you stick to pot odds when deciding when to call a flop raise.

Lets assume you are on the button with suited connectors. There are 8 SB in the pot and you flop an inside straight draw and nothing else (4 outs). The guy before you bets giving you 9-1 odds. You need 10-1 for your draw, but due to implied odds you can call this.

At what point would you not call it? If you are only getting 7-1 would you call? 6-1? I know it is a little hard to analyze this without specifics as far as how many people in the hand and your relative position, so maybe this isn't a great question. But I think I may be being a little too liberal on my flop calls and would like to know how other people go about analyzing this.

[k_squared]

answering this question requires (as you note) a fuller sense of the game you are in. How tight/loose and aggressive passive are your opponents? If you are going to be facing a raise behind then you are in trouble. Do you have nay redraws? Will you win occasionally if you pair one of your cards (could they be betting overcards or drawing hands?)? How often will your hand win when you hit it (and conversely how often will it lose)?

The long in short of it is that you certainly need to be in a favorable position to take the short end of the effective odds. But given the right circumstances your implied odds can make up for that. Whether or not that is the case will depend on your read of the situation and table. Also remember that you are going to be making double sized bets on the next two rounds which is a good thing if you need implied odds!!! also, inside straights are well hidden ad so often result in getting you paid off...

Be honest with yourself about your hand. Figure out your odds, what you think your implied odds are and then make a decision according to that.

-k_squared

[Osric]

Thanks for the reply, but I really am looking for more of a concept here. I know my specifics are lax, but isn't there a more concret point where a call is good/bad?

Lets take extreme examples to start. Lets say you are in the blind with j9o. A mid position calls and everyone else, including the SB folds. Pot size is 2.5 SB. Flop comes up 8QA Rainbow. You check, MP bets, pot is 3.5 SB and you are 10-1 against. Smart play is to fold, right?

Example two: You are on the button with 9-10s. 5 people call in front of you, you call, SB calls, BB raises, everyone calls. 16 SB in the pot (I think). Flop comes out 4-8-Q Rainbow...nuting in your suit. BB bets everyone calls to you (so there is over 20SB)...obvious call if not raise situation.

Well, how about something in between. Loose passive table in general, no brilliant reads on anyone. You are in late position like in example 2, but this time after the flop the bet comes around to you and you are only getting 7-1 odds (so, 4 people including you in the pot). Do you make this call figuring implied odds making up 3 bets? If so, would it be wrong to call if you are only getting 6-1?

[New001]

You really need to look at your opponents and make assumptions about how many bets you'll be able to get from them if you do hit. If they're looser and more aggressive, you'll be able to call with less favorable odds than if they're extremely weak tight and they'll fold if you bet.

The bets are larger in the later streets so the implied odds on your flop calls are going to be larger, but the players often play tighter on them too. It's really difficult to give concrete examples without going into the players involved, your position relative to the bettor, etc.