the amount of cheating in poker

[**MR.MANHATTAN**]

howard,read my other posts today. What you are saying is that you have never ever seen team play at the bellagio? u have never witnessed cheating at el cortez? u ask me for proof,hahahaha,yea ok...im a poker police? The real question is why you are so against me stating what i will on a open forum? And why are you putting words in my mouth? Either there is or there is not cheating? which is it? In your honest opinion has there ever been team play at any casino you have been in? Stop stirring [censored] and telling people what i say. I am a man and step up and admit when im wrong. Did you read where i apologize to people i mightve offended or did you miss that part? Are you man enough to admit when you are wrong? Like giving me flack for there being no table,currently at the Western? big deal. For knocking your beloved El cortez? Grab yourself man,hear yourself. Why are you not blasting your pal Dave keiser for being insultory towards people and using such profanity? Is that acceptable behavior? You defend his offenses that others also abhor.Yet u scathe me w/your bitter reportoire for agreeing with,not defending, a self professed cheat? You my friend are looking to start trouble and are a mean bitter person IMO. You condone rude behavior,and bring up petty mistakes to make yourself look good? I look forward to meeting you in person and discussing these things like a gentlemen ,maybe we can resolve our differences over coffee, for i am done posting here,but will avail myself of the posts that are made. Goodbye sir,good luck.MR.M

[Howard Burroughs]

"howard,read my other posts today. What you are saying is that you have never ever seen team play at the bellagio?"

I have not seen team play at Bellagio. Note: I'm not saying it does not exist. There or anywhere else. I'm saying I have not seen it there.


"u have never witnessed cheating at el cortez?"

No, I have not.

"u ask me for proof,hahahaha,yea ok...im a poker police? The real question is why you are so against me stating what i will on a open forum?"

You can say anything you want.I just want to see facts to back up serious charges. I don't think that is asking too much. I'm sorry if that sounds bitter. It is not meant to sound that way.

"And why are you putting words in my mouth? Either there is or there is not cheating? which is it?"

I don't take issue with anyone who states there is cheating in poker.

But when you name a local room as having plenty of cheating going on (in high stakes games) and state that Russ may not be liked but he is honest; well Russ has stated about a gazilion times that Bellagio management is on the take. When you tell people that he is honest, even though you did not say the Bellagio floor is on the take, you give credence to a man who does say that.




"In your honest opinion has there ever been team play at any casino you have been in?"

Yes. The Sundance poker room comes to mind (now Fitzgeralds, they have not had a poker room in over a decade, btw) They were infested with teams.


"Stop stirring [censored] and telling people what i say. I am a man and step up and admit when im wrong. Did you read where i apologize to people i mightve offended or did you miss that part?"

I saw that part & thanked you for it, if you saw my post.


"Are you man enough to admit when you are wrong?"

I would like to think so.


"Like giving me flack for there being no table,currently at the Western? big deal."

You said there was live poker at the Western. I just would hate to think of someone going out of their way, after reading your first Western post, to indulge in all the Western has to offer only to find out there is no poker down there.



"For knocking your beloved El cortez?"

The El Cortez can be a lot of fun at times. Though I have logged many hours there in the past two decades, it's not where I spend most of my time these days. Though I plan on going back real soon.


"Grab yourself man"

That might hurt.


"hear yourself. Why are you not blasting your pal Dave keiser for being insultory towards people and using such profanity?"


Does Dave cuss?


"Is that acceptable behavior? You defend his offenses that others also abhor.Yet u scathe me w/your bitter reportoire for agreeing with,not defending, a self professed cheat?"


I believe Russ G has a lot to offer. When he says things about people I know, I say what are the facts?

"You my friend are looking to start trouble and are a mean bitter person IMO."

Again, I'm sorry if I come across mean & bitter. That is not my intent.



"You condone rude behavior,and bring up petty mistakes to make yourself look good?"

Again, not my intent, just trying to get to the facts.


"I look forward to meeting you in person and discussing these things like a gentlemen ,maybe we can resolve our differences over coffee, for i am done posting here,but will avail myself of the posts that are made. Goodbye sir,good luck.MR.M"


Looking forward to meeting you. I will be at the Jason's Deli (3910 S. Maryland Pkwy near Flamingo, 893-9799 call for better directions) this Wednesday from 2:00 until 4:00 or so. There will be a group of poker players there, from rank beginners to 30-60 pros, talking poker shop. You & any 2+2 readers/lurkers are welcome to come by and talk poker. If you come by this week Mr M, I'll be happy to buy you lunch (BTW, we may be somewhere else the week after).

Of course I may get the chance to meet you at the Bellagio 2+2 seminar on Monday. But if not at Bellagio then please come over to Jason's east side on Wednesday and allow me to buy you lunch.


Best of Luck

Howard

[PokerScene]

One of the longstanding complaints that casinos have had about poker rooms is the cost of the dealers...Has anyone thought of the possibility of computerized LIVE tables...no dealer to tip, or to pay, but a live experience as far as TELLS and atmosphere!

[**MR.MANHATTAN**]

Jasons is a great place,reminds me of my beloved ny,but i got a feeling that i will be villified and just short of crucified??? im not looking for trouble and being told how stuopid i am. And by the by if u saw daves posts to me and others on rgp u know he curses and talks ugly. At the seminars mon. i might approach u alone for maybe we can talk re: cheating and i can point out some cliques to you. I'm not going to start going to mgmt. pointing out things they might or might not know and tolerate. Thesame way you probaly nevr went to gaming or anyone in 1988 when u were approached to join a "mob". There will be no more mud slinging by me. For what i say re : russ g's posts,the first time was the day after i met a 80 yr old man,software dev. that came from seattle and was staying at flamingo hilt. he told me stories that made me believe he was Russ. but i put it together that russ is younger. So i figured that the old man was being honest and did not seem to be vindictive that there was some truth in russ g's posts. I never meant to validate all of what he posts,except that there is cheating. So im done arguing and pretty much posting in these forums,for it is not at all what i thought,much more intellects stroking their egos and talk of war ,pro and con, and everything else besides poker. I DO ADMIT I GET SUCKED INTO PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE MUCH TO OFTEN....but i mean no harm to anyone and it would trouble me to think i have. That lunch at jasons sounds good but It sounds like a setup for a hit. ya know what i mean? Mr. M [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img]

[Howard Burroughs]

Jason's is no set-up. Come on by & I'll buy you lunch. All that is going to happen is you are going to meet a lot of nice people. No one is going to give you a hard time. Heck, my wife is going to be there. I've got to be on good behavoir when she is around.

Gotta Run

Best Wishes

Howard

[Hobart]

A very long series of posts with many viewpoints,but in my estimation there is some cgestion and collusion from the home games all the way to the high limt at the Bellagio.If anyone disagrees I know a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.

[**MR.MANHATTAN**]

brooklyn bridge? cheap?

[Ulysses]

Al said re: Wednesday poker group: We are recreational players, props, and professionals playing from low limits to $80-$160, both live and online, with quite a few writers.

Howard said re: Wednesday poker group: There will be a group of poker players there, from rank beginners to 30-60 pros, talking poker shop.

Al says players in the group play to 80-160 and Howard says they play to 30-60. If that's not hard evidence of a conspiracy, cheating, lying, and thieving, I don't know what is. Based on this, I am never playing poker again in Vegas. I hope this exposure, based on months of investigation, will help protect many fellow 2+2ers from this devious scheme. Nice try, guys.

[Jimbo]

Ulysses, perhaps Al was speaking in Canadian Dollars! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[AceHigh]

"and this leads to increased pressure on their life styles."

I don't know if you are aware of economics studies and ethics, but these studies confirm you suspicions. That is people, ie. executives of companies, are much more likely to cook the books of a formerly successfull company, than companies that are trying to become profitable.

Seems human nature is such that people are more likely to cheat to maintain success, than in trying to achieve it. I guess people don't miss what they don't have.