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#1
03-27-2003, 05:33 PM
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How good of a tourney player are you?
I'm very curious about this question. I have been playing poker about a year now and am pondering the idea of turning pro. (hold laughter) I think that the best way to make a substantial income is on the tourney circuit. I currently play on Paradise the single player 10 seat tourneys, yes I realize there is a certain crapshoot effect there. Here are my last results over 45 games. These are all the small 10-20 maybe a couple of 30 if I'm feeling frisky.
First - 7 Second - 9 Third - 10 Out of money - 18 I'm curious of how these results compare to other 2+2ers, who I can tell by the quality of their posts and decisions are better players than me. I went to Vegas last fall, only played in three live action small tourneys, but finished in the money in all three. [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 
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#3
03-27-2003, 05:52 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
45 is too small to have any statistical significance. It looks like you're doing great, but even if this is a performance you can sustain for years, you're only earning something like $15/hour from these. And, as you say, they are not indicative of the level of competition you'll face on the tourney circuit.
It is hard to make a living at tourneys only. If you're a top player, you can expect to win about double what you paid to enter. Thus, you'll average a win of about $200 from each $100+25 event you play, or a profit of $75. $75/day isn't that great for a long term living, so you'll need to enter bigger events. Problem is, bigger events aren't as common, and the competition is tougher. The vast majority of long-term successful professional poker players make most of their money from cash games. Some of those follow the circuit, and play tourneys as well as cash games, but they rely upon the cash games for their living. The tourneys are a way to increase their variance and hope for the big score. If you quit your job to play poker, make sure you can grind out a decent hourly wage in the cash games. Otherwise, you are in for a world of hurt, most likely. Simply put, you need both the +EV and a huge bankroll to make it on the tourney circuit. Also, don't ever lend or borrow money. Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
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#4
03-27-2003, 07:22 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
Also, don't ever lend or borrow money.
Of all the excellent advice you have given on this forum, that sentence is probably the best. The only way I would improve it would be to add, "especially in a casino." Sometimes I shake my head at the things I see...
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#5
03-27-2003, 07:28 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
Actually borrowing money is not as bad as lending it. Just don't borrow money when you really need it! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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#6
03-27-2003, 07:41 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
"It is hard to make a living at tourneys only. If you're a top player, you can expect to win about double what you paid to enter. Thus, you'll average a win of about $200 from each $100+25 event you play, or a profit of $75. $75/day isn't that great for a long term living, so you'll need to enter bigger events. Problem is, bigger events aren't as common, and the competition is tougher"
I agree with this in general, except for "$100+25". If the house is taking a a full 1/5 of the entry fee, find somewhere where there are better tournaments. Also, remember that you can probably slip most small tournament winnings (except possibly the top 2 or 3 spots) by the IRS. That's up to you of course (and if you do choose to report it, remember that all tournament buy-ins can then be considered "business expenses"). $75/day = $525/week = $26250/yr (w/ 2 weeks of vacation). If you can get that mostly tax free, working 1-4 hours/day (the length of an average tournament, depended on where you go out), that's definitely enough to scrape by on, and you have time for a 2nd job or 2-4 hours of ring play. Again, I think you can do a little better than the $75/day figure...
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#7
03-27-2003, 08:21 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
about your results...
I wouldn't expect them to stay as high. I think 50% in the money with approximately 25% wins is pretty good goal. That will win you approximately your buy-in for each tournament you play. Pretty good for an hours work - IMO. bubs
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#8
03-27-2003, 08:25 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
Fossilman is correct however it is not 4 hrs a day . to make the money in the high limit tourneys; $300.00 buyin and above it is 10+hrs of play, plus travel expenses need to be considered. I have traveled the circut for 2.5 yrs now and in tourneys am ahead 9k avg per year spend 4k per yr on expenses, you need to play side action to increase profit.
I show all profit and deductions on taxes however I make a good pay check day trading as well which shows as most of my income. there are 100 or so of us who show up at all tournies and its like a little family. is it fun? yes ; is it an easy way to make a living? no. all but a top few have other sources of income. look at the interview Scotty had at the 02 series where he stated he lost 210k last year!!!!! can you afford that!
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#9
03-27-2003, 09:18 PM
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Re: How good of a tourney player are you?
45 sample is way too small. Wait until you have played over 200. Your result is great, but it's unlikely it means much. You have more 2nd and 3rd place than 1st. A top tourney player always have more 1st place than 2nd and 3rd. After you have played 200 tourney, you will have a better idea of how you play. Pretty much all frequent tourney players are big winners when they first started, cuz otherwise they would have stopped playing soon, but only a small percentage of them are long term winners. It's better to focus on your play rather than your win rate at this stage.
good luck
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