overvalue of AQ? - Page 2

Roman · #11 05-03-2005, 12:37 AM

if this is true, I grit my teeth and call. Especially if final table money doesn't mean that much to you.

shaniac · #12 05-03-2005, 12:40 AM

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OK, let's add something else into the pot... he's re-raised you several times before and you laid down every time.

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That would tip the decision in the direction a call.

Shane

ClaytonN · #13 05-03-2005, 12:45 AM

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Especially if final table money doesn't mean that much to you.

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Huh?

Sorry to digress on this one little line, but the point of the post is to decide what decision will make the most money in the long run.

Bankroll considerations, or how much the money means to him, should be considered insignificant.

ZootMurph · #14 05-03-2005, 01:12 AM

I call. The reason is simple... It looks like Hero is stealing and the big stack is probably using his leverage to resteal. Other things to consider are: a) if he knows you can fold a big hand being up against the only stack that can bust you, he may make this move, and b) if you put yourself in his position, the range of hands he may make this move with is behind AQ (Any pocket pair, any Ace, any King, any two Broadway, or even suited connectors). The worst case scenario is AA, KK, QQ, or AK. Considering the small percentage these hands make up of the range of hands you are probably up against, I think this is an easy call to take control of this final table and this tournament.

Roman · #15 05-03-2005, 01:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Especially if final table money doesn't mean that much to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

Sorry to digress on this one little line, but the point of the post is to decide what decision will make the most money in the long run.

Bankroll considerations, or how much the money means to him, should be considered insignificant.

[/ QUOTE ]

To him yes, but I am a firm believer in passing up edges very late in tournies when the payouts are much higher if folding is practically guaranteed to increase your payout dramatically. I would never do this in a 20$ tourney, but if you are playing the sunday special, I could completely understand passing this edge up.

TheLoser · #16 05-03-2005, 01:25 AM

I was at this final table with you...thought it was a pretty easy call the way the BB was playing. Foreigner is tricky and likes to make moves with a large variety of hands in this spot.

schwza · #17 05-03-2005, 10:30 AM

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OK, let's add something else into the pot... he's re-raised you several times before and you laid down every time.

Gavin

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i call with AJ, maybe less. you have fewer than 20x stacks, HU. AQ is a monster.

how big were the other stacks?

SossMan · #18 05-03-2005, 11:26 AM

Oh, god...my chips beat his into the pot. The fact that he has restole you a number of times only makes it that much easier.
You are very likely way ahead here and quite possibly dominating.

Lurshy · #19 05-03-2005, 11:38 AM

But the beauty of restealing, is it gets the original raiser to eventually make looser calls at the wrong time.

I probably call as well, but know that at times, the restealer is hoping you make the call.

I am very aware when I steal several orbits in a row against the same BB, or resteal back aginst the same raiser several times. You are praying for the monster to play just like the steal (the next time).

SossMan · #20 05-03-2005, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But the beauty of restealing, is it gets the original raiser to eventually make looser calls at the wrong time.

I probably call as well, but know that at times, the restealer is hoping you make the call.

I am very aware when I steal several orbits in a row against the same BB, or resteal back aginst the same raiser several times. You are praying for the monster to play just like the steal (the next time).

[/ QUOTE ]

okay, but that doesn't mean he has it that time.

consider the example of someone grossly overbetting by pushing all in twice or three times an orbit preflop w/ 100x BB.
What do you think the best play is if he has KK? It might be pushing all in. That would likely elicit a call from a hand that isn't AA. However, if you have QQ and you have seen this yahoo push 100xbb two or three times an orbit and you have QQ are you folding because KK/AA are in his "range"?

Sure, he could have a hand, and given the context it's probably the way to play a big hand, but it doesn't mean that he actually has it. If he does, then it's just bad luck for gavin.