This Is An Easy Fold, Right?

[-Skeme-]

-----
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)

SB ($42.35)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($133.40)
UTG+1 ($164.35)
MP1 ($35.90)
MP2 ($80.80)
MP3 ($98.50)
CO ($170.80)
Button ($72.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $3, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 calls $2.

Flop: ($15.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $2</font>, MP2 calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $12</font>, Hero ??
-----

[kongo_totte]

Yes. But IMO folding pre-flop is even easier.

[-Skeme-]

You fold a suited Ace knowing there will be $15 in the pot on the flop? Are those not enough odds to look at the flop?

[spoohunter]

I call it.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
You fold a suited Ace knowing there will be $15 in the pot on the flop? Are those not enough odds to look at the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Every single time, because:
A) You are not closing the action, but mainly because
B) You are OOP the whole hand. &gt;50% of the hands I win w/ SC:s and suited aces I win uncontested when semi-bluffing, which is much much easier in position. You got like the best possible flop you can ask for and check/folding is the right play IMO. Basically, SC:s and suited aces are worthless OOP IMO.

[-Skeme-]

Fair enough.


[ QUOTE ]
I call it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we talking preflop or post?

[swolfe]

it depends. you actually have a good deal of pot equity against a hand like KQ-no clubs.

how much fold equity does a push have? probably not a lot since MP bet and Button made a good raise. if you and MP and Button were to all put your money in, you're likely +EV unless one of them has a set...and even then it's close.

EDIT: meh, maybe not that close:

pokenum -h ac 2c - kd qd - 8d 8h -- 8c ks 9c
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing Ks 9c 8c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac 2c 237 26.25 666 73.75 0 0.00 0.262
Kd Qd 28 3.10 875 96.90 0 0.00 0.031
8d 8h 638 70.65 265 29.35 0 0.00 0.707

[nsj]

[ QUOTE ]
You fold a suited Ace knowing there will be $15 in the pot on the flop? Are those not enough odds to look at the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I fold a suited ace when the kicker is a two... but your rhetorical question begs another -- if you're going to call the flop for the extra $2, what are you looking for but a nut flush draw? If you think it's an easy fold, what kind of flop were you hoping to see?

[-Skeme-]

The kicker being a Deuce has no bearing on the call whatsoever. I am not calling to flop an Ace so I do not care about the kicker. It being suited is the reason I am calling. I am looking to flop the draw or the flush itself, but I cannot determine the action I'm going to get. If it appears I'm far behind I'm going to fold the hand. If the guy had just called I'd be getting amazing odds on my flush draw. And my question wasn't rhetorical.


[ QUOTE ]
how much fold equity does a push have? probably not a lot since MP bet and Button made a good raise. if you and MP and Button were to all put your money in, you're likely +EV unless one of them has a set...and even then it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I don't think I'm THAT good with just the flush draw. Especially if they both call. I dont' see me having much folding equity in this hand, and now that I've played with main Villain after the hand I assume I had no folding equity whatsoever.

[CHiPS]

I think the pre flop call is fine.
After the flop I would call. One of the other players may have a flush draw also, which is great for you if the flush hits. If at least one of the other players calls when you call I think you are OK on implied odds. If the flush hits you could get up to two full stacks.