Take one off on the flop? Did I deserve to be berated?

Rocaix · #1 04-30-2005, 02:06 AM

Anyone think this is a good spot to take one off on the flop with position and two somewhat deep stacks in the pot? Both
UTG and MP are decent, although tend to overplay their hands somewhat and my hand is well disguised.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($1506.05)
Hero ($1800)
SB ($1558)
BB ($458)
UTG ($2266.28)
MP ($1273.5)

Preflop:Hero is Button with 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG raises to $35, 1 Fold , CO calls $35, Hero calls $35, 1 Fold , BB calls $25.

Flop: ($142) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $100, MP calls $100, Hero calls $100, BB folds.

Turn: ($442) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets $240, MP calls $240, Hero raises to $620, UTG calls $380, MP folds.

River: ($1922) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets $1,511.28 (all-in), Hero calls $1045 (all-in).

Final Pot: ($4012)

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Kh Ks.
Hero shows 10d 7d
Outcome: Hero wins $4012. 

Naturally UTG goes ballistic on showdown and berates me for being a fish and proceeds to go on full blown monkey tilt. Personally I thought my flop call was fine, getting about ~18-1 on my stack with two semi-deepish players in the pot. In addition to the image value that I would recieve as the gutter cchaser if I hit. Would anyone else play this differently?

emil3000 · #2 04-30-2005, 02:54 AM

I think it's fine especially since you tilted him doing it. The straight is well disguised and I think you can expect to make some good money with it.
Did you consider the possibility of tilting him when you made the flop call?

creedofhubris · #3 04-30-2005, 05:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone think this is a good spot to take one off on the flop with position and two somewhat deep stacks in the pot? Both
UTG and MP are decent, although tend to overplay their hands somewhat and my hand is well disguised.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($1506.05)
Hero ($1800)
SB ($1558)
BB ($458)
UTG ($2266.28)
MP ($1273.5)

Preflop:Hero is Button with 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG raises to $35, 1 Fold , CO calls $35, Hero calls $35, 1 Fold , BB calls $25.

Flop: ($142) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $100, MP calls $100, Hero calls $100, BB folds.

Turn: ($442) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets $240, MP calls $240, Hero raises to $620, UTG calls $380, MP folds.

River: ($1922) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets $1,511.28 (all-in), Hero calls $1045 (all-in).

Final Pot: ($4012)

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Kh Ks.
Hero shows 10d 7d
Outcome: Hero wins $4012. 

Naturally UTG goes ballistic on showdown and berates me for being a fish and proceeds to go on full blown monkey tilt. Personally I thought my flop call was fine, getting about ~18-1 on my stack with two semi-deepish players in the pot. In addition to the image value that I would recieve as the gutter cchaser if I hit. Would anyone else play this differently?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty loose call. I'd'a folded. I don't like the preflop cold-call with a two-gapper either.

You can't always assume that you're going to be able to stack someone when calculating pot odds. He may not have the hand he's representing, and you may not even get the whole stack if he's on AK.

Also note that you're not closing the action on the flop; shortstacked BB has yet to be heard from, and the chance of an allin reraise from him makes the call even more risky.

Rotating Rabbit · #4 04-30-2005, 05:48 AM

I think its probably slightly -ev. You're getting 3.5-1 in direct odds, UTG may just be taking a shot at the pot and CO (who seems to transform to MP in the history?) could have almost anything. You'll probably get the pot again if you hit, so I think you're laid 8-1. If you get to show its probably EV neutral from table image benefits.

MTBlue · #5 05-01-2005, 08:15 PM

Fold preflop (tough hand to play) but I don't mind the play as long as you are willing to bluff periodically in position with the missed gutshot and the image play if you hit is awesome. The guy is only berating you to keep you from taking good odds again. 18:1 on a 12:1 is a lot of profit.

fireitup123 · #6 05-02-2005, 05:26 AM

Probably should have folded preflop. The postflop play is fine. Esp. with backdoor flush draw potential I think it's a good call on the flop. As far as the guy who was criticizing your play, that's just dumb. I wouldn't bother to respond to something like that if it were me. If it put him on tilt, all the better. If you play him again, it might be a good idea to make a bad call in hopes you can catch again and see him go on tilt ha.
Nice hand.

xorbie · #7 05-02-2005, 10:15 AM

It's not 18:1 on a 12:1 though. Let's say river pairs the 9. Villain pushes, Hero..?