How to extract the most from a maniac? (long)

cookie · #1 05-01-2005, 08:55 AM

Played some 1-tabling 5/10 6-max.

Sat down at a pretty good table with two guys with vpip of 75 and 65. At some point one guy lives the table, not one of the fishes, and this maniac came, we where seated like this hero, decent player, but not overwhelmingly good, fish (75), changed a bit but fairly tight seat, new maniac, fish (65) had a river bluff from him where I had been the agressor all the way to the river, and then he gaybets, I call, Q-high

Why did i believe the maniac was so much of a maniac:
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks, maniac bets, SB folds, Hero folds, MP calls, CO folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, maniac bets, MP raises, maniac 3-bets, MP caps, maniac calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, maniac calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results in white below: 
MP has 5d 7h (full house, sevens full of fives).
maniac has Qd 2s (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: MP wins 13.50 BB. 

I did get to have alot of hands against this maniac, but Im not sure I played them all perfectly, since Im new to 5/10 I still might have a bit of weakness due to the increases $ amounts

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, maniac raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

I figured my maniac would raise any hand, and SB would fold a lot of hands for 2 bets

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, maniac bets, Hero calls.

Should Ive bet here?

River: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, maniac bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG :#A500AF(maniac)/ raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
maniac bets, Hero raises, maniac 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
maniac bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
maniac bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.70 BB

Should I give up anywhere here due to the 3-bet on the flop

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
maniac checks, Hero bets, maniac folds.

Final Pot: 2.70 BB
Dont really know why this is going with, but pretty standard, right?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, maniac bets, Hero raises, BB calls, maniac 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls, maniac calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, maniac bets, Hero raises, BB folds, maniac calls.

River: (13.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
maniac checks, Hero bets, maniac raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

3-bet for value on the river?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, maniac bets, Hero raises to isolate maniac. Is this move ok?

The other hands are in the order they are played, think this one where second or third, but not sure

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Button :#A500AF(maniac)/ calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, maniac calls, SB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, maniac calls.

River: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, maniac raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

3-bet river for value?

Hope you'll find time to throw a comment

MoDOH · #2 05-01-2005, 09:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At some point one guy lives the table, not one of the fishes, and this maniac came, we where seated like this hero, decent player, but not overwhelmingly good, fish (75), changed a bit but fairly tight seat, new maniac, fish (65) had a river bluff from him where I had been the agressor all the way to the river, and then he gaybets, I call, Q-high

[/ QUOTE ]

I started to read but after reading this sentence I am so confused i must rest for awhile...

cookie · #3 05-01-2005, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At some point one guy lives the table, not one of the fishes, and this maniac came, we where seated like this hero, decent player, but not overwhelmingly good, fish (75), changed a bit but fairly tight seat, new maniac, fish (65) had a river bluff from him where I had been the agressor all the way to the river, and then he gaybets, I call, Q-high

[/ QUOTE ]

I started to read but after reading this sentence I am so confused i must rest for awhile...

[/ QUOTE ]
Its should have said leaves, not lives.

I think seatings are somewhat important since its a lot of hands with the same seatings.

But well, not the most important part of the post, feel free to skip it to comment on the hands [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

krishanleong · #4 05-01-2005, 10:08 AM

You missed a ton of bets on the river. You keep posing the question 3-bet the river for value. In all the hands you ask this the answer is yes. Someone who will raise middle pair on the river, the answer is to cap every hand better than top pair. You won't win all the time (Maniacs do get sets) but this maximizes EV.

The other one I don't like is the AK hand. Maniacs don't give free cards. I just calldown from the flop.

The isolations and other hand look really good though. Looks like you played when can be a challenging spot pretty well.

Krishan

cookie · #5 05-01-2005, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You missed a ton of bets on the river. You keep posing the question 3-bet the river for value. In all the hands you ask this the answer is yes. Someone who will raise middle pair on the river, the answer is to cap every hand better than top pair. You won't win all the time (Maniacs do get sets) but this maximizes EV.

The other one I don't like is the AK hand. Maniacs don't give free cards. I just calldown from the flop.

The isolations and other hand look really good though. Looks like you played when can be a challenging spot pretty well.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx for the comments, the "maniacs dont give free cards" actually was nice to re-realize, since i remember thinking about the free card when I raised that hand

cookie · #6 05-01-2005, 05:49 PM

This is kind of a bumb, but my brother reviewed these hands too, told me his opinions on messenger, some was different from Krishan's.

Would therefore appriciate some more opinions

7ontheline · #7 05-01-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You missed a ton of bets on the river. You keep posing the question 3-bet the river for value. In all the hands you ask this the answer is yes. Someone who will raise middle pair on the river, the answer is to cap every hand better than top pair. You won't win all the time (Maniacs do get sets) but this maximizes EV.

The other one I don't like is the AK hand. Maniacs don't give free cards. I just calldown from the flop.

The isolations and other hand look really good though. Looks like you played when can be a challenging spot pretty well.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I mostly agree with Krishan - all rivers in question should be 3-bets. I think I would have raised 55 on the button against this guy preflop to isolate.

zephed56 · #8 05-01-2005, 09:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At some point one guy lives the table, not one of the fishes, and this maniac came, we where seated like this hero, decent player, but not overwhelmingly good, fish (75), changed a bit but fairly tight seat, new maniac, fish (65) had a river bluff from him where I had been the agressor all the way to the river, and then he gaybets, I call, Q-high

[/ QUOTE ]

I started to read but after reading this sentence I am so confused i must rest for awhile...

[/ QUOTE ]
Its should have said leaves, not lives.

I think seatings are somewhat important since its a lot of hands with the same seatings.

But well, not the most important part of the post, feel free to skip it to comment on the hands [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
One bad thing about having an aggressive player to your right is that they will attack your blinds often, and you won't get to play some borderline hands due to the pf raises.

Position relative to your opponents is very important.