Gen Theory Question: Flush draw facing pot sized bet, what to do?

[elcap]

Hello all, this is a situation I find myself in quite often and am not exactly sure wht the correct way to play it is. I generally mix up my play in these situations but would like to know if you guys feel there is an ideal way to play these situations. For purposes of this let's assume both of us have 100XBB (big blinds) stacks, no raise preflop and a pot of 6XBB.

Situation 1: You have nut draw in position there is pot sized bet and it's folded to you. I like to raise in this situation, and hope to get a check on the turn if draw doesn't hit, but then when you get reraised you are put in a tought spot. I think when facing a reraise your options would be fold or push and I am not a big fan of pushing with just a flush draw (I want a pair or straight draw with it to push). Calling doesn't seem to be the correct play though because you are definitely not getting odds to call and if draw doesn't hit on turn you are likely to be facing a bigger bet on turn that is likely not laying you proper odds either. I know you have implied odds but too often if you call and flush draw hits on turn villian slows way down and you don't extract enough cash to make up for the poor odds given on the flop. I suppose you could lay it down and wait for a situation where you have a couple other callers in front of you laying you better odds. What do you guys think?

1A: Do you play this a lot differently if the draw is non-nut?

Situation 2: What about if you are OOP with this same draw and face pot size bet and it's folded back around to you? Any different?

Thanks, I look forward to hearing a few opinions on this one.

[OatmealJoe]

Generally, with position, I would more often call a pot bet on the flop, but fold to another one on the turn if I don't hit the flush. If I hit the flush, I can usually extract enough. Out of position, I would frequently fold.

Some of this depends on your read of your opponent and the texture of the flop. For instance, depending on my reads, if I think my opponent might have flopped a set and bet this way, I'd more likely fold (they'd have a bunch of outs to a boat). If I think he had just top pair and I could hit an Ace as an out (w/ my Ace high flush draw), I'd more likely call.

[PokerFink]

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For instance, depending on my reads, if I think my opponent might have flopped a set and bet this way, I'd more likely fold (they'd have a bunch of outs to a boat).

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Sorry, but this is isn't smart.

Especially with 100BB stacks, if I think villian has a set because he is leading into the field for a pot bet, the nut draw is about my favorite possible hand (besides a bigger set, obviously). Your implied odds are through the roof in this situation, whereas if he just has top pair, you're not going to be able to get enough value to warrant a call.

Example: You call the 6 on the flop. The pot is 18, and both players have 93 left. You make the flush on the turn, and villian checks. You bet 20. You really think he is folding the set? I doubt it. River bricks. Now the pot is 58, easily allowing you to get another 25 in value out of his set. There is no way you can extract this much value out of top pair.

If the board pairs, oh well, go with your read and muck it.

[elcap]

Tough to put someone on a set though just from a pot size bet, unless you have a really strong read on him. Pot size bet could easily mean top pair, overpair, or set. I do like your point about implied odds going way up if he does in fact have a set though. What about the raise play though? Would you guys not play it that way. I suppose it's read dependant to some extent but one nice thing about the raise is against some players you can get them to fold that top pair. However, if he has a set he is likely to put you in a real tough spot with the reraise.

[PokerFink]

Basically...

Against a tight player you feel has top pair: Make either a mini-raise or 2.5x raise, and then really put him to the test on the turn. Note that there has to be something out there besides the flush draw that you could concievably be raising with (such as AJ9 flop) to convince the tight player you can beat his tptk.

Against a tight player you feel has top 2 or a set: Call, see my above example.

Against a loose player you feel has top pair: Just call, as he is more likely to pay you off if you hit, and less likely to fold to the semibluff.

Against a loose player you feel has top 2 or a set: Easy call. This is the best possible situation, as you can stack him every time when you hit.