A hand with many textbook concepts

[Girchuck]

The game is Party $10-$20 6-handed.
The cast:

UTG - probably a decent Full Table player struggling to make transition to SH play. His postflop aggression numbers are bigger than mine (not too difficult), but he limps too often and his pfr is 3%,
I have him raising UTG with TT, KK, AKo and KQs. My note on him: "3bet fl. w/2ndPTK vs 3"

CO: A typical TAG, capable of many things. My note on him: "multitables"

Button: A donk from my buddy list and a main reason I am sitting at the table.

BB: myself holding A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG raises, CO calls, button calls, I call(?). (Raising here isn't good, because I figure I might be dominated a good percentage of the time, is this correct? On the other hand, AJs must defend the BB, is this correct?)

The flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I got my flush draw but what is my plan? I check, UTG bets, CO calls, button calls, what do I do now? The book says that raising with the flush draw is +EV in this situation. How does the fact that I expect to be 3-bet 50% of the time change this? If I am 3-bet I probably lose CO, and might even lose a Button (if he called the flop with K-high for example). I wuss out and just call.


The turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])
If I am still drawing, I just got two more outs. I might have the best hand if UTG has AK, but most likely I am still drawing. I check, UTG bets, CO calls, Button calls.
This is a textbook raise here, right? I just call.

The river is J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])
Ok, now my draw has come through. Barring a disaster like a set of Queens, I have the best hand. Should I bet or go for a check raise?

[sy_or_bust]

Your overall play is somewhat weak-tight.

Against this specific UTG you can call preflop, but against most other players you are re-raising. The flop is great for a check/raise, which you must do 100% of the time. Not doing so is a large error.

Since you only called, you don't know how much the J helps you on the turn, and the c/r would be for thin value only as nobody is folding and your hand will be best a reasonable amount of time, you don't know. I think a c/r followed by a bet/fold UI is a reasonable, aggressive line.

The river is tricky. TAG probably has a medium PP or a 7, and he won't overcall your bet but he will call one from UTG. He may consider a value bet if UTG checks. Button sounds like he'll either call zero or call 2 for you. UTG won't raise your bet without QQ, and it is difficult to imagine him betting out UI. In the game I'd go for the c/r, but I'm not sure which line is better, and I wish we had more of a read on UTG's hand.

[jquattro]

The preflop call is iffy, Hopefully someone else knows the correct answer. Domination is possible, but broadway suited looks too good to call with.

The oddest thing for me is that the CO (who you call a TAG) is coldcalling. Given that he and the Button have shown a liking for coldcalling, a flop raise, followed by an UTG 3 bet may not drive them out, imo at least one will stay, especially since they've already put money in the pot this round.

On the turn, I don't see you winning unimproved often, as in a four way raised pot, that queen is an ominous presence. Adding all your draws you still have a small edge where a raise would be +EV.

Given the raiser's position, this hand is perfect for a check raise. If the raiser (UTG) checks there are still two players left to bet, and given that they are in this long, though ive seen people call down this board with backdoor straight draws that they picked up on the turn, one of them should bet, particularly that TAG on the CO.

[Girchuck]

I went for a check raise, but UTG obviously had a superior image mapper, because he checked his AQ, TAG checked his TT and donk checked his 88, and I managed to extract minimum possible from this hand.

[mperich]

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call is iffy, Hopefully someone else knows the correct answer. Domination is possible, but broadway suited looks too good to call with.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you consider folding this hand in the BB or from anywhere you are not a winning shorthanded player.

As for the hand I think c/r flop is ok, but just calling I dont think is a huge error as Sy said, especially since you are in perfect position to checkraise the field on the turn or river if you hit ur flush.

As for the river, checkraise looks good, given ur position.

-Mike

[RunDownHouse]

I thought the same thing at first, Mike, but I believe he was referring to raise v. call, not fold v. call.

[mperich]

Ah you are correct sir, misread by me =P

Raising can't be correct vs the described UTG though either IMO. So by process of elimination I think you must call.

-Mike

[jquattro]

I should've made that clear, my fault. I was thinking the same thing. At my average table, I raise that hand in the BB almost always. But clearly this is a different situation and a call is best.