Constructive Learning

[PokerDonkey]

This is a second posting to the inital "who's the best HUSH posters". I just wanted to invite everyone to bash and criticize me as much as they can. This seems to be the only way that I learn. I think debate can often lead to the best memory recollection. Anyhoo, what do you guys think of these plays?

SB is LAG
No read on CO
HERO is BB

Hand 1:

Party Poker 5/10 (6max) 6-handed

folded to CO who raises, SB Calls, HERO callsJ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop3BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets, Hero Raises, CO folds, SB calls

Turn5BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB bets, HERO Raises, SB 3-bets, HERO folds

Final Pot8BB)

Hand 2:

UTG is LAG from previous hand
HERO is CO

UTG raises, HERO 3-bets Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], button folds, blinds fold

Flop: (6.4SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG checks, HERO bets

Turn: (4.2BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG checks, HERO checks

River: (4.2BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG bets, HERO calls

Final Pot: (6.2BB)

UTG Had: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Any other routes in these hands? Thanks everyone!

-DONK

[Girchuck]

Hand 1 is ok if you can trust the SB to have the goods when he 3-bets. Can you trust this LAG? It is your read.
The other line against a very aggressive SB who you cannot trust to have the goods when he 3-bets the turn is to call down instead of raising the turn

The turn is hand 2 is misplayed. You may not slow down when an overcard falls on the turn especially if this is a king and not an ace. If you are very scared, you may bet and check behind on the river (although this is not a recommended play), but this K puts another flush draw on board. Draws have to be charged. Your hand is strong.

[mperich]

Hand 1: Raising turn gains you nothing, just call down. It would have been the same price, and you gain more bets from an outright bluff. Maybe with AJ or KJ a raise would be ok, but what is he going to call a raise with here other than a draw that J8 can beat? Assuming he's lag he's betting the river with his busted draw anyways, so you make the same.

Hand 2: Bet turn. You can't let every overcard freeze you.

-Mike

[PokerDonkey]

That is my usual line of play would be to bet the turn. I believe I mostly misplayed it because of my own mental lacking. At that point I probably had lost 12bb just in heads up play to him. No reason to "soften" up. But hey, I'm a donk...I'll learn. Thanks~

[tac252]

Hand 1 is a bit tricky IMO. The way I usually approach this situation (a stop and go bet from a lag) is if I have showdown value, even as little as A high, I will call down and raise a favorable river. If I do not have showdown value I will either raise (as a stop and go is a huge sign of weakness to me) or fold, depending on how much credit I give the bettor. In your situation in which you have TPWK with a pair on board I will call down. The times he is bluffing he will fold to a turn raise and the times he has a 9 he will 3 bet (unless your opponent is into bluff 3 betting the turn). This line is a good way to maximize profits when ahead and lose the least when behind.

In hand 2 I will bet this turn. In the results he had a K (but you cant be results oriented) but at that stage in the hand you have no reason to believe your hand isn't good and a turn bet will be correct more often than not. If he raises the turn given that he is a lag I most likely will pay him.

Hope this helped.

Tom

[PassiveCaller]

Hand 1: let him keep bluffing and don't give him a chance to make you fold a hand like top pair against a lag.

Hand 2: Can't freeze up on the K here since he'll call that flop with a lot of hands you're ahead of that the K doesn't improve.

[rwanger]

If you guys think it's right to bet the turn, and check the river if he calls you on the turn...what about checking the turn knowing that he'll bet into you on the river (being a LAG). Then you just call.

-If you're beat, you don't give him the option of checkraising.
-If he has nothing (or his draw doesn't hit), he will bet out the river, and you make 1BB from his bluff. If he has nothing and you bet the turn, he folds and you don't win that bet.
-If he has something he will call you on the turn with, it is no threat to give him a free card, since he would have called anyway, and has little chance of improving.

The only way you could do better would be to bet the turn and river and be called on each. Am I wrong?

[tac252]

your point has merit, but there is a drawing board and you have to make the draws pay IMO. checking the turn seems like a mistake. That being said I can see why you suggested it.
Tom

[RamGad]

I was wondering if anybody checks the turn in hand two if an Ace appears instead of a king. Against an agressive opponent I believe Sklansky says to check here. It would also depend on the suit of the ace too. I might bet/fold the ace of hearts. If he raises, you're mostly definitely behind here. Might check call any other ace though. I hate these situations.