High card A, similar to Barron

DpR · #1 04-28-2005, 12:28 PM

Villian is fish (70/14/1.5), but I haven't seen him get aggressive, he just calls down with anything. During the hand I decide there is nothing wrong with the passive route here (not to mention I don't have a hand) so I call down with nothing - just giving $$ away?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP2 folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.33 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.33 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

FoodForThought · #2 04-28-2005, 12:42 PM

Hmmmm...that looks like a tough one. You don't really have enough information to make the right play, but fishy, passive players tend not to bet the river with busted draws (not sure if this is a valid assumption). If I call....it's more to see how he played a hand for future reference, but I lean towards folding that river.

GoblinMason (Craig) · #3 04-28-2005, 01:06 PM

Yeah I wanted to say fold the river too, but I think I'd probably call.

1.5 is fairly high for someone that goes to showdown a lot. I think you will be shown something like T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] often enough to make it profitable.

-Craig

jgorham · #4 04-28-2005, 01:33 PM

I would just call the raise on the flop, then fold on the river.

Bartholow · #5 04-28-2005, 01:39 PM

1.5 is a pretty high aggression factor, (I'm going to assume you have a significant number of hands with this player) so I think calling down is ok.

DpR · #6 04-28-2005, 02:00 PM

I tend to think that if the fish are betting the whole way they are betting the river too. I think they are embarrased to be leading with bad hands (since they don't realize there are times when this is the correct play) so they bet the river in hopes it won't get exposed. Generally I think checking behind on the river is done by the tighter players.

DpR · #7 04-28-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I wanted to say fold the river too, but I think I'd probably call.

1.5 is fairly high for someone that goes to showdown a lot. I think you will be shown something like T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] often enough to make it profitable.

-Craig

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I thought I was drawing the whole time and was planning river fold, but then when he bet I thought hmmmm....

The interesting this is that his flop cap is what made me call the river. A cap doesnt make much sense there other than a draw. A hand that can beat my represented overpair would raise the turn I would think..........

DpR · #8 04-28-2005, 02:24 PM

about 110 ahnds - not a ton, but reasonable IMO. I was thinking of him more as fish than as aggressive though.

DcifrThs · #9 04-28-2005, 04:04 PM

the thing about this is i dont remember any hand like this right now so im assuming its barronvangortroth...

onto the hand.

preflop duh.

flop 3 bet is ok if...and now im going on the edge b/c you want to usually gain money w/ the best hand...its ok IF you are sure you can fold the river desptie the extra money you're putting in the pot (i.e. you know he has a good hand here). if there is anyway he can do this with a draw and you're going to mostly have to cal lthe river anyway, just call the raise and use that bb to get to a showdown (or % of a bb b/c he doesn't always cap).

on teh turn you have a clear play.

but now he expects you to call the river despite his badness as a player. you said he doesn't get aggressive w/o a hand and here he is capping the flop....would he do this with a draw? if not you must fold the river.

if there's a chance he'lll do it w/ JT etc... then clearly you must call the river...this is what i meant by not 3betting if you're almost certain he wouldn't cap w/o a hand but theres a chance you may have to call the river also.

thats something i've never heard or thought of before so its probably wrong, but id like to see the analysis of it (or more likely, the obvious thing i missed).

-Barron

DcifrThs · #10 04-28-2005, 04:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would just call the raise on the flop, then fold on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is dependent upon the chance he caps with a darw or gets very very aggressive w/ a draw....OP said the guy doesn't get aggressive w/o a ahnd...if that is the case, you must fold the river but go ahead and 3 bet the flop

-Barron