Online 5/10 KQs UTG Bad Turn Play

Rob · #1 03-19-2003, 12:42 AM

online 5/10, i have a pretty tight image and am in the 10 seat. 2+2er in the 6 seat is not in this hand. I get KQc UTG and raise, UTG+2 coldcalls, MP coldcalls, BB calls, rest fold.

Flop 2c Td 9s. I bet, all call
Turn 2c Td 9s (Qs). I check, all check.

BAD BAD BAD! I got Fancy Play Syndrome here. I'd seen the MP coldcaller 3-bet 2 pair on the turn against a very straightforward player on a 3-flush board a few hands previous (the BB had the flush), I thought he'd bet and I wanted to checkraise. There is no way I should have checked, too many draws to give free cards to. I can easily call a raise.

River 2c Td 9s Qs (9h). Checked around again. I would have called a bet and possibly overcalled.

My hand was good, BB had A7s (free card), 1st coldcaller had AKh (free card), 2nd coldcaller had black 8s (free card). EVERYONE would have called the turn. I lost at least $30.

I wanted to post this so that I can print out the flames and stick them on my wall so I never, ever do this again (seriously). This was just awful.

RobPG

Clarkmeister · #2 03-19-2003, 12:47 AM

Not betting the river was awful too. You get at least one and maybe two callers.

Rob · #3 03-19-2003, 01:08 AM

i agree. i knew as soon as i checked the turn that i screwed up. had i bet, as i should have (and typically do) i would have had a much clearer idea of what to do on the river depending on what fell. i just ended up confusing myself. thanks for your reply, i appreciate it.

Jim Easton · #4 03-19-2003, 01:41 AM

River 2c Td 9s Qs (9h). Checked around again. I would have called a bet and possibly overcalled.

Betting would have been much better than thinking about possibly overcalling.

Everyone talks about how 5/10 online is so tough and compares to 15/30 live, yet look at this hand. AKs merely calls, rather than 3-betting. 88 calls an EP raise cold with only 1 other cold-caller (I'd respect a 3-bet, but think a fold would be better). Only the BB calling with 2 other callers is reasonable, but what was he doing calling on the flop?

Robk · #5 03-19-2003, 02:48 AM

Hey Rob, here are a few thoughts. A checkraise on the turn especially can be a tricky
propostion unless you have someone specifically in mind who is very likely to bet. But I think the
main point in this hand is that 1. The pot is big and 2. There are multiple opponents. When
these two things are true, it's probably best to play in a straightforward fashion. One last
thought is that although you felt one player was aggressive and likely to bet, the other players
(if their play in this hand was typical) appear to be loose passive, ie calling stations. When
players like this are in the pot and you have a solid hand, there's usually more money to be
made just by firing away as the probability you will be called is so high. Hope this helps.

Rob · #6 03-19-2003, 03:38 AM

hey robk. i appreciate your comments and i think you are right on the money. i'm not sure what came over me. i do usually fire at the calling stations. even if i know the last guy will raise, great, trap everyone else for more bets. again, thanks for your insight and your time.

elysium · #7 03-19-2003, 04:08 AM

i'm not crazy about raising in utg with this particular holding. every so often, to keep them guessing fine. but this hand is usually better off in passive conditions in which you want to keep the weak tights in, not scare them away. and as you've learned, this holding likes to be bet out;the passives won't bet it for you. i'm speaking very passively and quietly, but these are my feelings about kq sooo....suited.

Bob T. · #8 03-19-2003, 05:41 AM

OK, you asked for it, BAD, BAD, BAD. I always regret not betting the river in these situations, I think I would log off if I didn't bet both the river and the turn having made two consecutive bad plays.

Ed Miller · #9 03-19-2003, 07:41 AM

What I don't understand is why you didn't bet the river after you missed your checkraise on the turn.

bernie · #10 03-19-2003, 11:49 AM

dont beat yourself up too bad for the turn play. this would be a totally different post if you were able to c/r. youre only saying it was bad because it didnt work. if you really thought someone would bet behind you, it was a good play. but it missed...so what.

it happens.

some attempted c/r's miss. it's a mistake if you didnt recognize that they dont bet when youre active in the pot. but not everyone sees that all the time.

however, that said, thats no excuse for not betting the river. these guys are pretty timid. youll make up for your lost bets when they dont charge you for draws...

one last thing...

"2+2er in the 6 seat is not in this hand. "

what does this line have anything to do with the hand? who cares about the player not in the hand. would you mention 'solid player in seat 6, folds preflop'.

i know it's only one line, but did you really have to put it in there? it reminds me of the hand histories where they show everyone at the table and how much they have in front of them before the deal....

useless.

anyway, dont worry about the turn play as much as the river

b