Betting out against no aggression

[MooFrog]

Here's something that's been coming up quite a bit for me lately, not really sure how I should be playing it.

Assume no reads.

When I hit the flop decently (either middle pair with high kicker, or top pair with crap kicker), and I'm first to act on the flop, is it correct for me to bet out? I've been playing it this way basically every hand regardless of position or number of players in the hand. With more players and early position I'm more inclined to check, but when it comes time to raise I always second guess myself.

Now assuming I've bet out, everyone has either called or folded. If the turn doesn't improve me and is a semi blank (no flush or straights on board), is it correct to bet out again?

I've been finding that this line has gotten me into trouble quite a few times lately. I've lost a number that I was sure were in the bag, and folded a few in small pots that I thought I was behind. I think it's still doing well for me, but will a check raise every once in a while on the flop or turn improve things against unknowns? Should I change my line depending on position or number of players?

[macdaddy991]

It depends. Are the players calling stations? Are they agressive? Why are you in a position in EP when you would have this kind of situation? Are you betting top pair or second w/good kicker? You are asking a question that is very hand read specific. Post hands and show the action. There is no single cut and dry answer for this.

[Bodhi]

You bring up two important considerations. The number of people in the hand, and whether to attempt a check-raise.

When you are first to act and there are 4 or 5 people behind you, you must consider the texture of the flop to decide whether to bet or check (also, consider the size of the pot naturally). If you are betting top pair out of the blinds, be more inclined to bet if your pair is Q or higher and the pot is unraised. Typical players raise with these cards, and so your top pair is more likely to be good. If your top pair is J or lower, and the pot is unraised, then your kicker trouble is more likely a reality. Moreover, when the board is draw-heavy or well coordinated, your pairs are worth a lot less, and sometimes should be folded (sometimes).
With middle pair you need to be more cautious, especially if the flop comes with an A and you have a pair of Kings, Queens, Jacks or whatever. Be more inclined to continue on with middle pair if you have backdoor draw potential, or if the flop is uncoordinated and spiking 2 pair isn't likely to make someone else a straight. Regardless, it is better to bet middle pair if you plan on calling with it, but have a plan as to how you'll continue on 4th and 5th street if it's raised behind you.
Check-raising is what you do when the pot is raised and you must knock people out to increase your chances of winning it (this is not the only reason to check-raise, but we're discussing single pairs here). When the preflop raise comes from your right and you call in the blinds or early position, the preflop raiser will bet the flop 90% of the time. You check and then raise immediately after he bets to force the remaining players to call 2 bets cold. This play is especially effective when you have top pair with a mediocre kicker, or middle pair with a great kicker. You may not win the pot the majority of the time, but the increased % of the time that you do take it down should more then compensate for the extra small bet. Don't expect your check-raise to knock out flush draws and open-ended straight draws, so be less inclined to try it when the board is very draw heavy (if the board is only moderately coordinated, then check-raising could be correct to knock out backdoor draws and gutshots).

These comments are limited in scope, but hopefully can clear up some misconceptions you may have. I hope I have not mislead you or given you any bad ideas, as I am always learning more myself every day, mostly thanx to the advice here at 2+2.

[trainslayer]

[ QUOTE ]
These comments are limited in scope, but hopefully can clear up some misconceptions you may have. I hope I have not mislead you or given you any bad ideas, as I am always learning more myself every day, mostly thanx to the advice here at 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice hand, sir.

[tinhat]

This is what postflop play is all about. sshe's postflop sections cover these situations and I'd suggest you arm yourself by getting the book and studying it. The situation(s) you ask about are typical and plentiful. Without understanding what to do and why, you are jeopardizing your stake. Losing pots you thought you had won isn't at all what poker is about. Profitable poker is about making correct decisions and whether or not you win a particular pot doesn't have anything to do with it...

[Matt Jenko]

i think tinhat's last line sums up very well what is quite difficult to grasp for newer players (myself firmly included). a lot of the concepts required to really be good at poker are not intuative and individual results really do not matter in the greater game.