Aggravating AA turn decision

ryanghall · #1 04-25-2005, 09:00 PM

Party 200 NL full ring. Villain and I have full stacks.

I get A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the BB.

3 limps, SB completes I raise to $10. 2 early position limpers call.

Flop ($32) Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet out $30. UTG raises to $60. I don't have too many hands with him but in 35 hands he's about (20/0). Other limper folds and I call.

Turn (about $150) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, he bets $70. I am now forced to make a decision for my stack - I have $120 back. He's playing like he has a set.... but QQ or JJ are somewhat unlikely as he originally limped PF. 55 is a possibility. It doesn't seem QJ would be possible, though you never know. AQ, KQ possible? Flush draw? Slowplayed KK preflop? This one really boggled me, so I called.

Comments appreciated, results to come.

Ryan

ryanghall · #2 04-26-2005, 10:38 AM

*bump* - any help on this one?

I've had trouble getting comments on hands... am I doing anything wrong in my posts?

Ryan

madscout · #3 04-26-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
QQ or JJ are somewhat unlikely as he originally limped PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is limping from early position with JJ that rare? I do this occasionally since it sucks to play JJ out of position in a raised pot when overcards flop.

kurto · #4 04-26-2005, 10:58 AM

Hey. I have a few thoughts...
1) "He's playing like he has a set.... but QQ or JJ are somewhat unlikely as he originally limped PF." a read would help. Is the player capable of slowplaying preflop? Granted, I'm playing at $50 tables, but I see calling stations who would always limp with these hands. As you pointed out, a set of 5s is a very real possibility.

2) I could also see someone doing this play with a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Min raise would be to scare out other callers and possibly buy a free card. When you checked the turn, he senses weakness and bets out.

3) As I said before, I play $50 NL. I would not be surprised at those tables to see someone call a raise with QJ. I can't say if the same is true at $200 tables but its something to consider.

Without more info on the villain, its impossible to say if you're gambling or not. I can only say, if you're going to call the turn, you know you're playing the rest so you might as well have just pushed.

I would have bet 1/2-2/3 pot on the flop. By potting it, with any action, your going to be playing a huge flop with just a pair(Granted its a great pair) with little room to improve.

PinkSteel · #5 04-26-2005, 10:58 AM

You're not doing anything wrong posting as far as I can tell. Reviewers seem to show up in waves, maybe you're posting at low tide....

Full ring UTG I nearly always limp JJ and play it for set value only, as I would 55. As you said, KK seems unlikely, but AQ and AJ are possibilities. *Maybe* KcQc?

I think chances are pretty good Villain beats a pair, but I would probably take the pot odds and call.

MikeL · #6 04-26-2005, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Full ring UTG I nearly always limp JJ and play it for set value only, as I would 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur. I would put him on jacks and fold.

Regards,
Mike L.

ryanghall · #7 04-26-2005, 04:58 PM

Good thoughts.

I think people are actually less likely to call w/ QJo on these tables as it is a trash hand.. (unfortunately that's what he had).

The reason I bet the pot on the flop is that there were a number of possible draws I wanted to either chase out or make pay.

Oh, and I did push on the turn. I mistakenly put that I called it. No sense only calling at that point.

Ryan

ryanghall · #8 04-26-2005, 05:00 PM

He flipped over QJ. Board didn't pair up for me and he stacked me.

AA aggravation continues for me. I think with that many limpers the problem was that I should have raised more preflop. 6x BB is not horrible there, out of position w/ 4 opponents. Tough to get away from playing for your stack in that case, that's the only problem.

Ryan

Zeatrix · #9 04-26-2005, 05:47 PM

Not sure this is an all good advice, but what I do in these situations is that I usually overbet that pot (not by much) and if I get a call or raise I know I'm in trouble. Only way to find out I guess. The raise preflop should have told your opponent that you have a big hand (why steal in bad position?) and so he knew that if he had paired the Queen, you probably had an overpair or AQ (since you opened with a bet), or just maybe AKs. I find that it is a rare player that re-raises without at least two pair in that situation.

jonnyUCB · #10 04-26-2005, 06:32 PM

the advantage of potting it is that the bet size shows that we mean business - I personally fold to the min-raise there. Hes basically put 1/3 of his stack on the flop showing a willingness to back his own stack. Personally, when OOP in this situation, I bet less so theres more freedom to move in the next two streets (which is the OP's problem here).

If min raised on my small bet on the flop (1/2 pot size) - I calla nd lead the turn in case of QcKc. Note that QcAc is not a possible holding as we have the ace of clubs.