I really have no idea what to do here - Page 2

Trainwreck · #11 04-26-2005, 01:47 PM

#1 I limp with that in tourneys, every chip of mine is precious, it plays well multiway and easy to bail if I miss.

#2 I think you didn't bet enough. 500 there seems better to me.

#3 A push would be wreckless, 500 there seems better to me.

#4 Once you bet 500 on the flop instead, you will have a better idea where you are at...

Unfortunately you are not drawing to the NUTS! You might be in really bad shape here, again that under bet on the flop messed you up.

None of your outs are completely clean... so you're in a bad situation...

Your fold is OK since the flop IMHO was misplayed.

Playing 87s here was OK, you timidly trapped yourself, but hey, you did survive.

Don't give the opponent FREE LUNCH on the turn! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

>TW<

Goon2 · #12 04-26-2005, 01:48 PM

1. PREFLOP: I think I'm only playing this hand if there are limpers in front of me. I want to play this in a large, multiway field. Since you're first to open, I recommend limping to encourage action, and occassionally it's OK to raise with this hand because you need to vary your play. But I'm not happy being HU with 87s, which is what your raise created.

FLOP: this is a reasonably good flop for you -- provided you get to continue at the right price. After all, the A on board might keep your fish on the hook if you hit your flush. Note this is why you would like more players in the hand, as it's easier to be able to make the correct play with more people putting bets in the pot.

I would probably have led out a small amount, because I don't want to check and let Villain swoop in with a steal. Still, as a 4:1 dog on the next card, I don't want to bet more than 50. I bet t50, hope Villain calls.

The bet of t200 serves no real purpose. He is probably not going away. His call is disastrous for you, having paid much more than 4:1 to see a turn which, even if you hit, won't give you the nuts.

TURN: I'd play it the same way, lead out with an odds justifying bet, or maybe a bit more if I think Villain is observant. Your check invites a steal, and you must fold.

Pat Southern · #13 04-26-2005, 01:54 PM

Anybody who is saying limp with this is giving terrible advice. Do not open limp for 1/12 of your stack, ever. The preflop raise is fine, as long as you're not doing it everytime. I also think the continuation bet is standard, but am debating the check/raise idea right now, not sure if I like it or not. On the turn with the way this hand has played out, you have to give it up, although you do have a nice draw.

DireWolf · #14 04-26-2005, 01:54 PM

You can not bet 50 into this flop. You said to make an odds justified bet. What bet would you make with AQ. I would hope not 50. This is not a subtle difference between betting your made hands and your draws, against observant players you will get killed.

jon_1van · #15 04-26-2005, 01:56 PM

thanks for the reply,

I have a couple more questions.

Would you agree that the flop continuation bet should be bigger? (Another poster has suggested this and I tend to agree)

In general would you advocate make slightly larger continuation bets when your loan opponent can "afford to lose" chips.

gumpzilla · #16 04-26-2005, 02:08 PM

I'm actually not sure how much I like the continuation bet here. I think the big stack is probably going to be holding an ace fairly often here, and I don't think I'm going to move him off of that often. If I have reason to think that he could fold weaker aces and JJ, then the continuation bet is probably pretty good, and I think in that situation I would make it more like 250, but I doubt it makes that big a difference.

Another alternative that you could consider is checking the flop with the plan of checkraising if he bets. This seems to me to have a better chance of driving a wide range of hands out, and if he checks behind, then you get a free card, which is almost certainly going to help your hand more than his. The risk with this is that a checkraise is going to involve putting a lot of your stack out there, but I think you're going to have enough folding equity and outs if called, usually, that I think this is the approach I might take here.

EDIT: I have no problem with playing 87s from your position, but I don't think I'd do it every time.

Pat Southern · #17 04-26-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for the reply,

I have a couple more questions.

Would you agree that the flop continuation bet should be bigger? (Another poster has suggested this and I tend to agree)

In general would you advocate make slightly larger continuation bets when your loan opponent can "afford to lose" chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, what would you bet if you had AK? Probably right around that same ammount. You bet more than half the pot, thats enough.

jon_1van · #18 04-26-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The bet of t200 serves no real purpose. He is probably not going away. His call is disastrous for you, having paid much more than 4:1 to see a turn which, even if you hit, won't give you the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is some good and some bad in here.

My bet did serve a purpose...very very poorly. I was betting to pick up the pot.

But you're right. The bet was not substantial enough. I learned absolutely nothing because a player that is known to be a "caller" can have absolutely anything here.

Had I made my bet because I wanted to price my own draw or block a bigger bet if I checked then you are right I should have bet less. But this was not the point of the bet so I don't think this standard should apply here.

Live and learn

Jurollo · #19 04-26-2005, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is why people don't help noobs sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

very friendly.

I registered 2 years before you did and I have about 650 posts. I may not be as active on the boards as you are but I'm not a noob.

My follow up post also served as a bump which I put in because my post was swallowed by the monster "offical" threads.

Don't get offended if I'd like more than 2 responses from this board that has so many active posters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry, confusing this with another post that was just made, although I still think you asking for more was a little much. You are not a noob, I was just half awake.

fnord_too · #20 04-26-2005, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Would you agree that the flop continuation bet should be bigger? (Another poster has suggested this and I tend to agree)

In general would you advocate make slightly larger continuation bets when your loan opponent can "afford to lose" chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what your standard continuation bet is. If T200 is the same you would bet with any hand you bet, it is fine. My standard post flop bet is typically a little more, usually between 2/3 and 3/4 pot, but that is me.

As to the opponent, it also depends. Though I have a standard post flop bet, I will definitely break from the standard depending on the opponent. If he is the type of opponent to drop if he didn't catch the flop, you don't need to bet more on a semi bluff. If he is the type to call with about anything, you need to bluff less and bet more when you hit. Playing out of position with a marginal hand against a much bigger stack is about the least fun situation in a tourney. Often you end up there through fine play, but it really is a hard situation to navigate.