I really have no idea what to do here

[jon_1van]

I have a few general questions....but 1st about this hand

This is a Party 20+2 (the hand right before the 1st break). I get called from LP from a guy whos been calling way too much preflop, never calling huge bets, but getting help like you wouldn't believe. I have been playing uber tight (somewhat a result of crappy cards). But a few hands ago I did get AQs and hit a Q on the flop and win w/o a showdown.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

MP2 (t835)
MP3 (t1605)
CO (t5205)
Button (t1005)
SB (t2118)
BB (t800)
UTG (t6555)
UTG+1 (t5405)
Hero (t1835)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t150, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t375) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, CO calls t200.

Turn: (t775) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t855</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1630



So my questions are ::
1. Should I be playing hands like this in a tourney w/o antes. I'm under the impression that you need to play a few more hands in PS tourneys because of the antes. (I turbo much here unless I open the pot in MP or better)

2. Does anyone check fold the flop? I'm thinking a continuation bet is pretty standard here

3. How abut a flop push? Seems reckless to me. But commiting 1/6 of stack and check folding doesn't thrill me either.

4. Does anyone push the turn? FWIW, I would have pushed the turn had I thought longer. I acted before I noticed the gutshot...having already planned my course of action for a "no help" turn assuming I got called on the flop.

So...there are my questions...I'm most concerned about the 1st one. Thank you in advance

[Jurollo]

1) Yes you can play these hands but raising preflop out of position is a no-no

2) If I am in this pot after that raise I would certainly make a bet here, if you get called, you are done with the hand unless you improve.

3)Flop push = stupid, why push T1600+ to take down a pot when you will only be called by hands that dominate you? You will have better chances

4)No way! He called your bet on the flop, you are done with this hand, fold it up.

Overall you shouldn't have been in this position in the first place, limp with these kind of hands in position then you don't need to bet out first on the flop.
~Justin

[slickpoppa]

I agree that you should not have played this in the first place, but if you are going to play it, I think that you should raise preflop as you did. I probably would have bet a little harder on the flop, like 250-300, in hopes of him folding. After he smooth called the flop, he's probably not folding, so I would check and hope he either checks behind or makes a small bet that gives me the odds to call. Given the bet that he made on the turn, I would have folded like you did.

[jon_1van]

anybody?

[JFM]

7-8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a crapy hand HU, just call PF.
The bet on the flop was fine.
After that your beaten and have to fold his turn bet.
As for pushing, Don´t! It is just not worth it.

[Jacob_Gilliam]

I dont know what you're trying to accomplish here. Its too early in the tourney to be trying to blind steal so far out of position and anybody that calls you has a better preflop hand than yours. 87s from this position is a call if the table is very loose and passive and a fold if it isnt. (IMO)

[Kristian]

Yes. With no previous callers, put it away unless it's very loose/passive preflop.

[Jurollo]

[ QUOTE ]
anybody?

[/ QUOTE ]
You already got 2 quality responses, this is why people don't help noobs sometimes.
~Justin

[fnord_too]

1. Pre flop is fine. You have to steal with some weak speculative hands especially if you have a tight image.

2. Flop is interesting. A continuation is ok since villain will be hard pressed to call without an ace or better or a draw, and the only real draw is to the flush. I think I check though, with the intention of pushing if bet at, and betting any turn if it is checked through. The only problem with a continuation bet is if villain has an ace, he will likely play like he did, call a standard bet and see what the turn brings. I like checking since if villain checks behind you can usually take the pot on the turn anyway even if you don't improve, and you can blow a lot of aces out of the pot with a c/r all in. (Savvy opponents will recognize that a c/r here could easily mean a draw, but this guy doesn't sound too savy, and if you c/r made hands too here, even a savvy opponent may be hard pressed to call, though his huge chip lead on you makes a call easier.)

3. I hate pushing the flop except as a check raise.

4. Pushing the turn is a pretty big overbet. I think betting 400 is an acceptable alternative to check folding. What to do if it is raised back to you depends on the raise. I would call a mini raise and fold to a push; somewhere in between these two extremes is where I switch from calling to folding.

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
this is why people don't help noobs sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

very friendly.

I registered 2 years before you did and I have about 650 posts. I may not be as active on the boards as you are but I'm not a noob.

My follow up post also served as a bump which I put in because my post was swallowed by the monster "offical" threads.

Don't get offended if I'd like more than 2 responses from this board that has so many active posters.