Play Along...This One's Really Tough IMO - Page 4

Ten7offsuit · #31 04-26-2005, 01:23 AM

The censors again?

Entity · #32 04-26-2005, 01:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
damn, you guys are weak. raise the flop. don't fold. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT FOLDING. even when you call and it's 2 bets back to you DON'T THINK ABOUT FOLDING. RAISE RAISE RAISE RAISE. you might have the best hand, you have a gut shot, the pot is huge, you want people out. GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE DAMN POT BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you have no self control.

Oh yeah, and I agree.

Pokey · #33 04-26-2005, 01:33 AM

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damn, you guys are weak. raise the flop. don't fold. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT FOLDING.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm...yeah. Let's throw another three hour's worth of expected return into this pot. After all, look how great the hand is! As long as we don't see a diamond, J, Q, K, or A on the turn or river, we only lose to a loose T, a set, a straight, two pair, or an overpair! We're probably already behind on this hand, we can't even trust our miracle outs, and you suggest that we four-bet the flop to "GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE DAMN POT."

Who the bloody hell is going to fold our flop cap? The guy who bet AND reraised? The guy who already called the first two cold? The original raiser? MAYBE UTG+1 folds this. We just spent 1.5 big bets to MAYBE fold one of the four opponents in a hand where, if by some miracle we're not already trailing, we can lose to half the deck on each of two more streets, and if we ARE trailing, we can't tell our safe outs from our trap cards.

Furthermore, if you think capping the flop is the best way to get people out of this pot, you're wrong. Doing so makes the turn pot 15+ BBs, and now ANY draw is getting pot odds to go to the river. You're not protecting your pot -- your trapping everybody into the hand. If you're really suicidal enough to pursue this hand in light of everything that's happened so far, calling the flop and betting, raising, or check/raising the turn is the better way to drive people out of the hand.

In short....

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you might have the best hand,

[/ QUOTE ]

Highly unlikely.

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you have a gut shot,

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...a dirty four-out draw to a one-card straight. Whee.

[ QUOTE ]
the pot is huge,

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...because people actually LIKE the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
you want people out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not going to happen. You've got a 3/6 PP game where the pot is big; nobody's running with any draws. You're likely behind. If you're not behind, the field has wicked odds to crush you. They're not leaving. Save your money and get out.

Entity · #34 04-26-2005, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
damn, you guys are weak. raise the flop. don't fold. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT FOLDING.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm...yeah. Let's throw another three hour's worth of expected return into this pot. After all, look how great the hand is! As long as we don't see a diamond, J, Q, K, or A on the turn or river, we only lose to a loose T, a set, a straight, two pair, or an overpair! We're probably already behind on this hand, we can't even trust our miracle outs, and you suggest that we four-bet the flop to "GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE DAMN POT."

Who the bloody hell is going to fold our flop cap? The guy who bet AND reraised? The guy who already called the first two cold? The original raiser? MAYBE UTG+1 folds this. We just spent 1.5 big bets to MAYBE fold one of the four opponents in a hand where, if by some miracle we're not already trailing, we can lose to half the deck on each of two more streets, and if we ARE trailing, we can't tell our safe outs from our trap cards.

Furthermore, if you think capping the flop is the best way to get people out of this pot, you're wrong. Doing so makes the turn pot 15+ BBs, and now ANY draw is getting pot odds to go to the river. You're not protecting your pot -- your trapping everybody into the hand. If you're really suicidal enough to pursue this hand in light of everything that's happened so far, calling the flop and betting, raising, or check/raising the turn is the better way to drive people out of the hand.

In short....

[ QUOTE ]
you might have the best hand,

[/ QUOTE ]

Highly unlikely.

[ QUOTE ]
you have a gut shot,

[/ QUOTE ]

...a dirty four-out draw to a one-card straight. Whee.

[ QUOTE ]
the pot is huge,

[/ QUOTE ]

...because people actually LIKE the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
you want people out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not going to happen. You've got a 3/6 PP game where the pot is big; nobody's running with any draws. You're likely behind. If you're not behind, the field has wicked odds to crush you. They're not leaving. Save your money and get out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus dude. You read that whole post and didn't realize he was talking about raising the flop, not capping it.

Yes, everyone will call our cap. We should be raising our hand on this flop initially, though.

Rob

Pokey · #35 04-26-2005, 01:40 AM

Ah, I see. My mistake. Yeah, I can see a flop raise making sense, since we don't yet know that other people are absolutely apeshit over this hand. Face the field with two when you're likely ahead, clean up all those outs. Makes sense to me.

When it comes back to you capped, though, I still say it's time to walk away, for all the reasons I mentioned before.

sthief · #36 04-26-2005, 02:26 AM

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Honestly, this is why I advocated folding the flop reraise.

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yes, damn, he only has a straight in a massive pot. I'd hate to be in that position

einbert · #37 04-26-2005, 02:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
damn, you guys are weak. raise the flop. don't fold. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT FOLDING. even when you call and it's 2 bets back to you DON'T THINK ABOUT FOLDING. RAISE RAISE RAISE RAISE. you might have the best hand, you have a gut shot, the pot is huge, you want people out. GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE DAMN POT BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

sthief · #38 04-26-2005, 02:43 AM

I can see where you got confused. the RAISE RAISE RAISE RAISE wasn't supposed to fit in with anything else. I kind of just said it

sthief · #39 04-26-2005, 02:49 AM

ok think of it this way...

the pot is 13 SB
to raise it costs 1 extra SB
you have plenty of equity

so you're paying 1 SB extra with lots of equity to make it easier to take down a pot 13 times the size of your investment

PokerBob · #40 04-26-2005, 02:55 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (16.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Kc Ks (one pair, kings).
Hero has 9s 9c (straight, ten high).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.50 BB. 

I am a fish.