Hand Comments: correct call or not?

[CaptainNurple]

I realize I won the low on this hand, but my question is whether calling a two-bet on the turn was correct or not. I was torn at the time between calling or folding, and I was tending toward folding...

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For some reason the hand converter wasn't showing any of the bets, so I've mixed text w/ hand-converter results:

***** Hand History for Game 1936338639 *****
$0.5/$1 Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, April 22, 23:37:35 EDT 2005
Table Table 27458 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10

automaster posts small blind [$0.25].
HERO posts big blind [$0.5].

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

LoriKori folds.
zetonio calls [$0.5].
h7390 calls [$0.5].
bigbadddad folds.
webemgc folds.
coyotej folds.
grammagrump calls [$0.5].
automaster calls [$0.25].

HERO checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
automaster checks.

HERO checks.

zetonio checks.
h7390 bets [$0.5].
grammagrump calls [$0.5].
automaster folds.

HERO calls [$0.5].

zetonio calls [$0.5].

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>

HERO checks.

zetonio checks.
h7390 bets [$1].
grammagrump raises [$2].

HERO calls [$2].

zetonio folds.
h7390 calls [$1].

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

HERO checks.

h7390 checks.
grammagrump bets [$1].

HERO calls [$1].

h7390 calls [$1].
grammagrump shows [ Ac, Jh, 8d, 4c ] a full house, Aces full of jacks.

HERO shows [ 8s, 2c, Ts, 3c ] two pairs, aces and eights.
HERO shows 8,5,3,2,A for low.

h7390 doesn't show [ Js, 7s, Jd, 9c ] a full house, Jacks full of aces.
grammagrump wins $6.38 from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of jacks.

HERO wins Lo ($6.37) from the main pot with 8,5,3,2,A.

[Buzz]

Cap - grammagrump makes a nice raise on the turn. Hard to tell for sure, but the raise is probably mainly to try to knock you out of the pot. Without the raise you clearly have favorable odds to call.

But even with the raise, it looks like you're getting about two to one implied pot odds for the low half of the pot - and you have sixteen outs for the nut low.

Thus the hand odds against you are 28 to 16. (It always adds up to 44 after the turn).

So, yes, if neither opponent also has
A2XX, you do (barely) have favorable odds to call here. If either opponent does also have A2XX, then it's slightly unfavorable, but close.

I think your best play is to call the double bet. The odds are very close, but there's more involved than just the odds, in my humble opinion. When it's a close odds decision, I think you want to show that you're not a good target for a bully. (Since the odds are close, one way or another, it's more a matter of table image than odds).

Just my opinion. I'd always call this bet.

Buzz

[CaptainNurple]

Thanks for the reply Buzz.

Also the fact that I had a baby club flush draw seemed to tip the scale just a tiny bit more toward calling. With only two other opponents I figured there was a change neither had the boat, so that minute chance of scooping the pot if I happened to catch a low on the river that was also a club helped convince me to call.

That's an interesting point about table image though, I recall you saying something similar about defending your blinds. Do you think that table image has importance at the lower limits (like the $.5/1 tables at PP)? I've always assumed that people just sort of play their cards at those levels and that I don't need to worry about image, would you suggest otherwise?

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Also the fact that I had a baby club flush draw seemed to tip the scale just a tiny bit more toward calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cap - Every little bit helps. That baby flush draw, however, is not worth even one scoop out. But it does give you a remote shot at scooping.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that table image has importance at the lower limits (like the $.5/1 tables at PP)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know.

I do think it matters at higher limits, and if you have any plans to move to higher limits you might consider thinking about and practicing what works better at higher limits in preparation for a possible eventual move to higher limits. However, if you're content where you are now, I suppose that's not a consideration.

[ QUOTE ]
I've always assumed that people just sort of play their cards at those levels and that I don't need to worry about image,

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so. From what I read here and there, I think there are some individuals who are playing at your limit who are actually pretty strong Texas hold 'em or seven stud players - but who are playing as cheaply as possible while they learn the game of Omaha-8.

I don't know as that matters much.

[ QUOTE ]
would you suggest otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. If the 0.50/1.00 limit is where you want to play, then play so as to optimize your chance of success at that limit.

If you do have plans to eventually move to a higher limit, I think you should first be able to beat the limit at wich you're playing. But once you can do that, maybe you don't want to play sloppily so as to develop bad habits that might not hurt your profits against very poor opponents but that might not hold you in good stead at a higher limit.

I hope that's not too vague.

Buzz

[beernutz]

[quote[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that table image has importance at the lower limits (like the $.5/1 tables at PP)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know.

I do think it matters at higher limits, and if you have any plans to move to higher limits you might consider thinking about and practicing what works better at higher limits in preparation for a possible eventual move to higher limits. However, if you're content where you are now, I suppose that's not a consideration.
Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

I accidently found out how important table image is in a $5/$10 Party Omaha/8 game a couple of nights ago. I was UTG with something like KJ89 with 3 spades. Normally this hand hits the muck quicker than college students hit a free buffet but I was multitabling and somehow ended up raising instead of folding. This was my first rotation on the table which had been somewhat tightish this round. I got 3 callers and after the flop came QQ3 with 2 spades I bet into it again and ended up beating someone's flopped trips (who never raised me) with a rivered flush. Some of the table chat was brutal (why berate the fish?) but from then on if I was in the pot everybody wanted in no matter how many bets it cost.

[CaptainNurple]

[ QUOTE ]
I do think it matters at higher limits, and if you have any plans to move to higher limits you might consider thinking about and practicing what works better at higher limits in preparation for a possible eventual move to higher limits. However, if you're content where you are now, I suppose that's not a consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point. My goal has always been to learn the game at these lower limits and then eventually move up, so I'll definitely start thinking about those techniques that will become more important at higher limits.