Another death penalty question

[MMMMMM]

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-- you offered some exceptions based on your view of what the exceptions should be. Tha tview is based on your world experiences and the emotions of right and wrong and exceesive harm that you feel.

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No, you are attributing reasons to me. My sole reason in the case of serial killers is to protect others from their murdering predations--predations which they will certainly attempt to carry out if given the opportunity. This exception is based solely on the need to protect others from something as about as dangerous as a rabid dog.

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-- Another may offer other exceptions and provide justifications that are long and most likely very reasonable to the person offering the exception.[/quopte]

Meanwhile you apparently cannot refute my chain of reasoning in this specific prototypical case.

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In the case of the death penalty, I prefer to stand on the side of no exceptions so that the slippery slope of exceptions is kept as closed as possible.

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Fine, and there is some merit to that approach. However I prefer, in all areas of life and thought, to peer as deeply as possible and to make exceptions wherever warranted. In other words I think everything should be evaluated on its own merits whenever possible. This is a very broad philosophical stance.

[dr_venkman]

Even Vlad Tepes (Dracula) put his prisoners to work.

Well, when he wasn't brutally executing them. Okay... bad example.

America ought to be able to do better than Dracula, don't you think? Even if the convicts sat in their cells 24 hours a day on stationary bicycles connected to alternators and generated electricity they would be doing more good then they are now.

[ACPlayer]

No, you are attributing reasons to me

Highly unlikely for me to attribute reason to you. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As I said, you offered exceptions and your reasons. The next guy will offer exception and reasons that seem well thought out.

The only exception I make for the death penalty is for the person who kills MY family member. That's it.

I prefer, in all areas of life and thought, to peer as deeply as possible and to make exceptions wherever warranted.

Unfortunately your deep peering seems to usually result in incorrect conclusions. How can I accept your view points, when mine are consistently better.

The essential problem with viewpoints and the advantages of principles without exception --- but then you and I are both human.

[adios]

...

[andyfox]

No. For me, the death penalty is just wrong. If to take another's life is the highest crime in society, such that it merits our most severe punishment, how can society justify doing exactly what the criminal did?

[jack spade23]

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I oppose the death penalty and has nothing to do with certainty of guilt.

However, if someone killed/raped etc a person near and dear to me, I would want the death penalty for that person.

If someone killed me I would oppose the death penalty for that person -- solitary confinement would be just fine.

Go figure!

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I realized that I felt the same way here. I think murder is wrong either way in cold blood, but if it happened to someone near me, i would flip out and want to kill them/have them be killed. The problem is, everytime we oppose the death penalty, there is a family out there who feels that way. How can we justify us feeling that way but not letting them?

[vulturesrow]

I say no for a variety of reasons.

1. The death penalty doesnt square with my basic feelings on the intrinsic value of human life.

2. Even in our democratic society the thought of the state having the the power to put citizens to death is rather chilling vis a vis the potential for abuse.

3. I dont think that the death penalty is necessarily a mark of an advanced society.

As AC pointed out, emotionalism does play a huge role and I would have much trouble remaining objective should the victim be one of my daughters or my wife for instance. But when I am not thinking emotionally, I dont support the death penalty.

[[censored]]

So if the UN said it was OK, the US could attack? How is this any different than the death penalty?

[bholdr]

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What in your opinion is the differnce between justice and revenge?

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I believe that many, many people confuse the concept of justice with those of 'reciprocity' and 'revenge'. To define 'justice' as simply 'people getting what they deserve' or the obverse of the golden rule 'do unto others as they have done unto others' are both massive oversimplifications, and misleading.

Many philosophers have dedicated years and lifetimes to the study of 'justice' and it pisses me off when people think that it's as simple of a thing as revenge.

Putting someine in prison for life is not nessecarily just either, but it's also not a supported by knee-jerk emotive bloodlust, which is the foundation of the (wrong) arguments in favor of the death penalty (ignoring the 'deterrance' argument- which has very little to do with justice).

A lot of it comes down to the maxim behind the action- "when a man kills, he should be punished with death" vs "when a man kills, we should do what is best for him and society" (perhaps, in some situations, executing the man would be 'just' under that definition- if there was no sureity that the man wouldn't get the chance to murder again- there is- nobody escapes from ultra-max prisons)


Basicly, bottom line, Justice is a muchh more complicated concept than revenge and reciprocity- too many people want to oversimplify and say- 'it's justice' when referring to the death penalty- though sometimes it may be.

[bholdr]

Actually, now that i've thought about it- deterrance may have a small place- but we would have to be 100% soure of guilt, and 100% sure that the person's motivation was totally cold-blooded, such as financial gain, etc... my reasoning is that only those that murder for profit take the time to consider risk/reward, while crimes of passion are IMO, not deterred at all by the death penalty.

i'm still against it on moral grounds, however. just a thought.