I think i really botched this AQs hand

[vhuntd]

[quote


On the turn, i don't see the "8-1" odds...calling the raise is $2 to win $12; making it actually 1-6, right?

With those odds, and the fact that there is already an overcall, i fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

nine big bets when the turn begins - there i bet (10 BB - a raise (12 BB) - 2 callers (16 BB) - and then it's to me and i need to call 2 BB - 8-1.

[vhuntd]

this is how the last post should have looked

[ QUOTE ]



On the turn, i don't see the "8-1" odds...calling the raise is $2 to win $12; making it actually 1-6, right?

With those odds, and the fact that there is already an overcall, i fold the turn.



[/ QUOTE ]

nine big bets when the turn begins - there's a bet (10 BB - a raise (12 BB) - 2 callers (16 BB) - and then it's to me and i need to call 2 BB - 8-1.

[PokerProdigy]

IMO raise the flop, because it doesn't look like you're ever gonna get a chance to protect this hand, so just push your pot equity edge on the flop. I would have probably raised the river too, but now looking at it I think a call would have been best, because you don't want to be re-raised and you should let the players behind you overcall. So basically I think a river call is best in terms of maximizing EV.

[davelin]

I think waiting for the turn to raise is fine in some circumstances here. Unfortunately as you can see one of the downsides of not raising the flop is that the turn can be tricky to play given unexpected action.

Just to be clear, raising the flop is definitely +EV but in some circumstances waiting for the turn is more EV.

[MechanoMan]

<GRUNCHING>

I raise the flop for value. We have a very strong hand with five opponents. I like the river 3-bet, I think top two pair is often going to be good here.

</GRUNCHING>

[SCfuji]

oooh what a fun looking hand.

usual line i will go for the flop raise to take back my lead. that way if you know your players you will know that they have an ace pasted on your forehead.

im torn between a turn 3-bet and the cold-call - same with the river. i dont know what to say about this hand actually. let me read this thread some more.

[vhuntd]

Just thought I'd post results for this hand.
SB had A2o for two pr aces and deuces
BB had T5o for two pr tens and fives

I take it down with aces and queens - lucky river card for me

[deception5]

My standard line here would be raise the flop, raise the turn (assuming a single bet) and raise the river. If BB woke up on the turn with the 2 of us betting, I am instead calling the turn and calling the river (assuming BB is still betting here).

Raising the flop will help with the turn here. If the BB wakes up against 2 people (rather than just the small blind) I'm a little worried and just calling the river. While this could easily be A2, A5, AT, there are only 2 aces out there and 55, 22, TT, KJ, 34s are all possibilities.

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
(1) Should have raised the flop?
(2) Should have just called the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. yes, for value and some information. You probably have the best hand now, but your hand is not strong enough for waiting for the turn as there will be lots of ugly & semi-ugly turn cards (any 2, 3, 4, 5 or [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) If any of those cards don't fall, you can probably continue on aggressively. If one of them do, you need to consider where bets are coming from and gauge your response accordingly.

2. given the disjointed board, i think a river 3-bet here is reasonable. you just pulled ahead of AT (more likely than BB holding a set) I don't think i'd be ready to give credit to a straight, but if there was one, i'd make a note that the holder made preposterous flop & turn chases.

[VBM]

but if we change Hero's hand to 55, do we still raise this flop or wait for the safe turn card to raise a big street?