trouble with maniacs in 4/8

[Still the Spank E]

First of all, what I find is that it's rarely the same guy doing the winning. The illusion is that LAG's win big all the time by playing that way, but the reality seems to be that its always a different guy with the big bunch of chips playing that way when we first sit down with our rack--at least in my experience. 'Like they take turns.

The illusion is aided by the fact that we never know how long he's been sitting there; how much of the mountain of chips he's sitting behind did he buy in with (a rack at a time, naturally); and how recently was he "down to the felt", as they say? These guys go on amazing tears both positive and negative--it just feels annoying when you sit there watching it. All poker authors will tell you the same thing--when these guys get on a run they can fill chip racks as fast as the runners can bring 'em, and when they're losing they're donating their kids' college tuition to you and me and everyone else at the table. But bear in mind, you're gonna be winning the same amount of money from the table if you play tight and aggressive, so it doesn't matter how the others divide up the money you're not a part of, anyway. Who cares if one guy is getting it, or eight players are dividing it up equally. What matters is how you play the next hand, not anything else. I feel your frustration, though, believe me.

As to how to play 'em. I find that loosening my standards A LITTLE BIT is the way to isolate them once you can get position on them (i.e., as close to their left as you can). If you can't get very close, you usually have to wait until yours is the first bet after theirs (i.e., everyone between has folded). Isolate 'em with A10o and outplay 'em once the flop comes down. By outplay 'em, I mean bet aggressively on the flop with or without cards. If they stick with you and you've hit one of your cards (A10o, or KQs, or something of this nature--but no worse), stick it to 'em; if not, bail hard and fast. Don't try to jam Ace high down their throats, but believe that your TP TK is all you'll need against these guys more often than not. One mistake people make is thinking that QJo is a suitable raising hand under these conditions. It's not. And if you can't raise with it, you'd better not call with it because half a dozen other players who also want to be in the pot with this guy and his 73o hands will be in there, too, and your QJo is worthless. Yes, if it were just he and you, QJo probably represents overcards to 89% of the hands he plays, but raising (or reraising) on just overcards when neither of them is an Ace or a King is suicidal in the long run, and calling presents the problem just discussed. But that's just me.

[damaniac]

If the villain is truly a LAG maniac, you should expect to show a profit with hands much weaker than TPTK (if you can get it heads up).

[bodie]

I wanted to thank all of you for your replies - it really has made me feel like it is what I thought it was: a certain sort of maniac that can be dealt with. I just have to get used to dealing with them with a strategy. Speaking of stacks - the last time it happened the crazy maniac had at least nine racks in front of him.
It's as if that sort of person is playing an entirely different game & I wonder what they're thinking. Do they play like that for the rush, or do you think it's out of ignorance? (or who cares).

[Still the Spank E]

You're right--when you can get them heads up. After a while, though, some of the other players at even a 4/8 table will figure out what you're doing, and not let you have the guy heads up after a while. Your middle and bottom pair will win a couple and--lo and behold--one or two other guys want to get in on the act. Apart from that, I totally agree with you.