How does KK fair in multi-way pot?

[OatmealJoe]

[ QUOTE ]

The 7 of spades gives the pair of 7s the only spade (flush) out of the three hands. if you change that 7s to a 7c, they're an even 3-way split.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=904920
pokenum -h 7h 7c - ad th - kc qd
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7c 7h 461125 33.64 905390 66.05 4239 0.31 0.337
Ad Th 452730 33.03 913785 66.66 4239 0.31 0.331
Kc Qd 452660 33.02 913855 66.67 4239 0.31 0.331

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. My point was that in a three way, it said that an underpair (i.e. 77s) "wins the least" which is somewhat deceiving. It is roughly a coin flip with 77s against two overcards, and it is roughly a three way coin flip with 77s against two sets of overcards.

Basically, I'd rather have an under pair vs. overcards (with multiple opponents), especially if some of the overcards could be duplicated.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok thanks, having re-read my post I came across a bit rude, sorry, didn't mean to be. So as AA will not be out there the majority of the time, what will?

Cheers

[/ QUOTE ]

it's ok, no offense taken.

[JonLines]

Jeez guys... I said I was at work.....

Try this one

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] vs K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] vs 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Enjoy [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Scooterdoo]

Clearly, the one hand you don't want to be up against is AA. This basically makes you a huge dog. However, you are usually in good shape (if nobody has AA) because as someone else pointed out you are probably against 1 or 2 underpair or 1 or 2 Ax combos. Now if there are two Aces accounted for then they are drawing to basically two cards against you, and the one or two pairs are also drawing to 2 cards each. So you are likely trying to avoid a total of 4, 6 or 7 cards -- if there is one underpair and two aces you're trying to avoid 4 cards, if everyone has an underpair you're trying to avoid 6 cards and if only one player has an A you're trying to avoid 7 cards.

Of course this is overly simplistic because your opponents can also make two pair if they have a hand like QJs (which is unlikely) or flushes and straights. Assuming you are not facing AA you are approximately a 50% favorite to win against any other likely holdings that the 3 others players would have -- pretty good odds to win against 3 other players, wouldn't you think?

The problem is that often, if there are 3 players in the pot already, there is a reasonable chance you are up against AA. This is something you need to determine based on the circumstances. It's actually pretty easy to fold QQ against 3 other players who are all-in, KK is a much tougher fold.

[SoBeDude]

Yes. My point was that in a three way, it said that an underpair (i.e. 77s) "wins the least" which is somewhat deceiving. It is roughly a coin flip with 77s against two overcards, and it is roughly a three way coin flip with 77s against two sets of overcards.

Basically, I'd rather have an under pair vs. overcards (with multiple opponents), especially if some of the overcards could be duplicated.

Yes and I agree. look how the picture changes when your opponents share an overcard such as an ace:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=905502
pokenum -h 7s 7c - ad th - ac qd
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 7c 636422 46.43 730863 53.32 3469 0.25 0.465
Ad Th 270469 19.73 1061938 77.47 38347 2.80 0.211
Ac Qd 425516 31.04 906891 66.16 38347 2.80 0.324

Now you're winning almost half the time and getting like 2.5 to 1 on your money (assuming additional blind/ante money in the pot).

This type of so-called 'race' gives a huge overlay and one you shouldn't be trying to avoid.

-Scott