first hand post EVER, how'd i do...

[fl0w]

You're too aggressive with a less than marginal hand.

[ErrantNight]

poorly. explain your river play.

[LipBalmGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Just check the river...

Also..Table selection

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more!

Table selection is the more important point here. It's the single biggest factor in being a winning player. (Sad, but true.)

[Felipe]

Table selection, a .05 .10 game thats this tight can't be a good table.
This was the first hand since I sat down that was folded to me. I posted this hand beause of this uncommon situation that many players face in microlimit games. I thought, "they folded to me?" And then I thought, "ok raise the sucka - win da blinds." I get a call, usually they call with junk, and my 77 is good. This time, he plays passively, I guess I can thank him that he didn't raise until the bloddy river.
Which leads me to...

poorly. explain your river play.
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I don't knooooooww!!! I've learned my lesson. CHECK! Avoid nasty ch/raises.

You forgot any reads you might have on BB..
This was his/her first hand. I didn't know what to expect.

You're too aggressive with a less than marginal hand.
YES! This the the stuff hand posting comments are made of. THANK YOU! Next time I will ease up on the aggression factor. One reason is, however, that my table image was tight and straight forward. (but then again, the BB just sat down, something that didn't sink in at the time) Before this hand, I was often successful at betting flop/turn/and river and all hands fold at the river!

Thanks for all comments.

[jrz1972]

Preflop = good.

Flop = good.

Turn = fine. (Betting this is my default line. If I have a particularly strong read on BB as a guy who would have folded if he missed the flop, then I might check behind. In the absence of such a read, I am betting the turn because I think my hand may still be good, I have some folding equity if I'm behind a weak T, and I might get a free showdown).

River = horrible. Betting the river is very bad. There are very few hands villain will call with that you beat, and at this point you are not folding out any better hand (if he called the turn with a T, he'll call the river too). Calling the check-raise is even worse. This should be a lesson for you.

[ErrantNight]

[ QUOTE ]

poorly. explain your river play.
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I don't knooooooww!!! I've learned my lesson. CHECK! Avoid nasty ch/raises.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should be careful taking this as your lesson...

I voiced my thoughts in that manner because I think you should really, honestly, look hard at your thinking on the river in situations like this, not because I'm trying to berate you. Saying I don't know and moving on fearing to bet the river for fear of check-raises will be Bad for you in the long run.

I'm a huge, huge fan of value-betting the river religiously. Then learn when not to. What you should take from this is that you did not have a value bet. You didn't even have a show-down. This was a clear c/fold on the river.

I'm alright with the turn bet because your opponent may be auto-calling the flop bet and you may have some fold equity. After he's called two streets, you're drawing to two outs almost all the time, once you don't improve, just let it go.

What I'm saying... is that this is all about hand-reading and understanding your own motivations. What is he calling you with on two streets that he's folding the river with or calling you with that you beat here? If you think he's loose and tricky enough to bluff-bet this river nearly all the time, the only way I'd consider seeing showdown, why would you want to lead and let him fold when he'll donate extra $$$ on a pure bluff?

I suspect your thinking was I'm betting to fold him. Or... I'm betting because I bet the first three streets and I showed strength and WHY HASN'T HE FOLDED YET?! And then he raises and you think, I can't fold to a bluff-raise here! But river bluff-raises virtually never happen. Really. And blindly betting the river after the first few streets out of stubbornness sucks too.

I'm not trying to be mean... I'm just saying that there's a time and a place to value-bet the river... when you have a value bet. Here, you didn't have one. But don't start checking the river when you probably have the best hand for fear of unlikely check-raises based on this hand. That's not the reason the bet was bad.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect your thinking was I'm betting to fold him. Or... I'm betting because I bet the first three streets and I showed strength and WHY HASN'T HE FOLDED YET?! And then he raises and you think, I can't fold to a bluff-raise here! But river bluff-raises virtually never happen. Really. And blindly betting the river after the first few streets out of stubbornness sucks too.


[/ QUOTE ]

EXCELLENT!!

As soon as you understand this simple concept, your game understanding will improve tenfold. Figuring this little bit out has helped me slow down or fold hands earlier, which I know has helped my win rate. Think of what hands you would call with on this river. Don't mind his play on the other streets, because I wouldn't have played it this way, but if you checked this river, what hands would you check raise with?

Ben

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Just check the river, he is not goin to call you with a hand you can beat.

Also..Table selection, a .05 .10 game thats this tight can't be a good table. I know it's only one hand, but it still seems unusual to find a table that folds to the cutoff in .05 .10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just want to point out that you don't know how tight the table is.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop play is OK to see where you are at, but you got called and the board is uncoordinated so there is a descent clue that your opponent probably has an A or a T. Since your preflop raise is cold called, the range of hands he is likely to be playing is more heavily weighted toward Ax and PPs higher than yours.

Therefore, you should slow down on the turn - especially when another overcard hits that could have given one of the few hands you had beat on the flop a straight.

Forget the river! That was a waste of 2 bets.

Also, you are likely to get better advice if you don't post the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap. I didn't realize he posted results!

Edit: mixed up hero/villain's hands while keeping action consistent, was:

[ QUOTE ]
Make sure you bet marginal hands at this guy in the future, and make sure you call his river raises in the future. Use the notes feature at whatever site you're playing and keep track of this! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

This is a noteworthy opponent.


[/ QUOTE ]

Note: 77 is a betting hand on this board but not a calling hand. What I said above doesn't reflect on hero.

Mark this guy down as a good player: that line with the ace is a good one: other than that he should probably have bet the river, and probably re-raised you preflop.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
is, however, that my table image was tight and straight forward

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was villain's first hand, presumably he hadn't spent a long time (less than an orbit) observing your play...

Keep in mind that when someone folds on the river after just calling throughout the hand, they're often folding busted flush and straight draws.

These hands wouldn't have beaten you, so you don't gain by making them fold.

What's lovely is when you bet and bottom pair calls. THAT's what you're hoping for when you bet the river (unless you have a busted flush or straight draw).

On this board, a person who's calling either has a better hand and will call, or a worse hand and will fold. At least, while it's possible for them to have a worse hand, it's not likely that they have a hand that's just good enough to call and still not win. The range of hands like that on this board is very narrow.

--Dave.