Europe - Thy Name is Cowardice

[vulturesrow]

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If you think that international cooperation is overrated, then You and your friends need more education.


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I think you are confusing the words overrated and useless. In a perfect world, we could always work things out through "international cooperation". I am quite sure we dont live in a perfect world and am quite sure that the primary threat to the world (which I happen to agree with Arfinn on) , Islamic fundamentalism, specifically the form that encourages terrorist acts, has little desire for international cooperation and most of Europes' response to this #1 threat is to put their heads in the sand.

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I don't care about this sh*t (politics forum) so find your sources yourself! (hint: try Google)

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If you dont care, why post here? Also, you made the assertion, not me, hence the onus is on you to provide evidence. Without that, your argument is dead in the water already.

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How about Vietnam and Iraq? If you think that war's are right, then you are just an idiot. (hint: more international cooperation = less war's )


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I dont think "wars are right". I think war is often a necessary act. Please answer my question about WWII and the prevention of genocide by the Nazis. Was that a necessary war? Did it not serve a very noble and moral end?

And please leave the stupid insults out of your next post. Also try providing some facts, some reasoning. I might think arfinn is a wacko but generally speaking, he does those things to some degree and in some cases puts together a cogent argument.

[vulturesrow]

Weak reply AC, I expect more from you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


First off, I dont believe anything that we have done foreign policy wise during this administration has been a danger to the world. You obviously feel differently. I think history is going to prove me right on this one. We shall see.

As for your assertion regarding the tolerance of religion, I invite you to investigate some of the following:


<ul type="square">[*]Pope John XIII's Encyclical, Pacem in terris, dated April 11, 1963[*]Second Vatican Council's Declaration, Dignitatis humanae, promulgated on December 7, 1965[*]Redemptor Hominis, an encyclical by Pope John Paul II[/list]

Admittedly, my viewpoint is Catholic-centric. And I am well aware of the fact that some people twist religion to suit their ends. Yes religion, at least Christianity, is intolerant of sins. I dont think you would argue against say the evil of rape. But but I wouldnt say you were "intolerant" in the usual sense of the word. Same thing applies to religion I believe.

[andyfox]

"I think war is often a necessary act."

Often?

[Stan the man]

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I think you are confusing the words overrated and useless. In a perfect world, we could always work things out through "international cooperation". I am quite sure we dont live in a perfect world

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More cooperation = less war's

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am quite sure that the primary threat to the world Islamic fundamentalism, specifically the form that encourages terrorist acts

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Primary threat to the world? They are primary threat to America and Israel, not to the world. American right wing lunatics are the primary threat to the world.

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Also, you made the assertion, not me, hence the onus is on you to provide evidence. Without that, your argument is dead in the water already.

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OK,Link

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Please answer my question about WWII and the prevention of genocide by the Nazis. Was that a necessary war?

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Maybe, but so what? Unnecessary war's vs. necessary war's 100-1 or something like that.

[vulturesrow]

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Primary threat to the world? They are primary threat to America and Israel, not to the world. American right wing lunatics are the primary threat to the world.

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Ask the Spanish and the Filipinos for starters if they think Islamic terrorists are only a threat to the US and Israel.



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OK,Link

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Your link does nothing to support the assertion that the American right supports or condones torture.

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Maybe, but so what? Unnecessary war's vs. necessary war's 100-1 or something like that.

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Wow nice made up stat. My point was that war is sometimes a necessary and correct action.

[Stan the man]

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Ask the Spanish and the Filipinos for starters if they think Islamic terrorists are only a threat to the US and Israel.

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Weak, 4 countries.

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Wow nice made up stat.

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Of course it is made up stat. My point is that, virtually every war is unnecessary.

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I think war is often a necessary act.

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My point was that war is sometimes a necessary and correct action.

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Often and sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[theBruiser500]

"Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo and we Europeans debated and debated until the Americans came in and did our work for us."

I've read that genocide was a tiny problem compared to what it became AFTER the US started bombing the area

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Torture- Wrong.

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One example, independent Amnesty on Guantanamo:
Amnesty on Guantanamo

Or an a more general basis, here:
Amnesty on human rights in USA

In addition there is revealed several cases where US has lobbied to transfer prisoners to countries which use torture.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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LOL. This has made Europe into a peaceful continent

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Wow, I have to show my friend from Srarjevo this post he is gonna have a good laugh....

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Is there any war there now? I speak of the current. To your info, both Croatia and Serbia wants to get closer ties with the EU. This reduces the chance that they will conduct atrocities against the moslems in Sarajevo again.

[ACPlayer]

The intolerance of religion is fact not opinion.

As I mentioned in another post in this thread, the intolerance of religion begins with the concept of the religion being the Right. Christianity (as practiced -- not necesssarily the core theology -- this is true of Islam as well) looks down on non christians as heathens, Muslims consider non-moslims as infidels, Jews consider themselves the "Chosen" people. The intolerance may not be that of color etc(though some christian churches in the past have used scripture to accept slavery etc), but in its own way it is intolerance. Few religions start out by accepting that each way of getting to God is just as good as any other way (Sikhism is one that codifies this concept in the first lines of its texts) and most religions spend a great deal of time and and effort in trying to get people to follow their particular rituals (and of course contribute to the political organization that they really are).

So, the politics of groups creates the intolerance.

Regarding Catholics, I suggest that its views on the role of women in the church hierarchy, its positions on homosexuals, be reconsidered before it can even begin to consider itself tolerant. Again this is my opinion as are all position on tolerance. Of course I know that the pope will kiss a black baby in addition to the white, brown and green ones.



Regarding the middle east, perhaps history will prove you right. The short term history of the past two years has clearly demonstrated that the administration was wrong (IMO) -- but that is a battle of opinions.