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#21
04-18-2005, 09:40 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
But now what if were talking about a major circuit tourt. $10,000 buyin, and over 200 bb in front of you. Now let also pretend your better then almost the entire field. Now you can make a case for folding to any allin preflop that would cost you a major portion of your stack, unless you can be certain you have your opponent dominated (and maybe even then). [/ QUOTE ] Two things: 1)When will this ever happen? what 10,000 dollar event are you going to be sure you are better than everyone else in the field? 2) Aces dominate every hand. [ QUOTE ] Now lets say your playing on the major tourney circuit with tourtaments of at least 500 people. In your first 6 tournaments im going to deal u Aces first hand. Another very poor opponent will get 8's every time and go allin in front of you. All 6 times u call (of course right)... 5times u win and double up, 1 time you lose your buyin. Has the extra 10,000 chips really increased your chance of winning the tournament by that much that it was worth risking elimination? This is at the very least worth a discussion! A tournament like this cant be won in the first day, but it can be lost! You have 4,980,000 more chips to gain before you win the tourt, and a few hundred thousand more at least before you show any profit! Maybe schroedy question has some validity after all? Open your minds! [/ QUOTE ] But now in the five tournaments you are still in, you can afford to lose hands where you are less than a 4-1 favorite, and you are much more likely to lose. This point has been discussed in many threads. 
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#22
04-18-2005, 09:57 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
1)When will this ever happen? what 10,000 dollar event are you going to be sure you are better than everyone else in the field? [/ QUOTE ] Who Said me? Many top professionals would consider themselfs in such a situation very often! [ QUOTE ] 2) Aces dominate every hand. [/ QUOTE ] Who said ACES??? I didn't thats for sure! [ QUOTE ] But now in the five tournaments you are still in, you can afford to lose hands where you are less than a 4-1 favorite, and you are much more likely to lose. This point has been discussed in many threads. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't question if this argument has been discussed before, just that there is a argument to be made! I never said I agree with this point! I really think your missing my point. Please read the all the post. Everyone decided to claim this was simply a bad beat story, it wasn't! He was asking a question. Trying to improve his understanding of tourtment play.
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#23
04-18-2005, 09:59 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
And if i were so foolish and I no so little compared to you why would u want me to stop playing poker? [/ QUOTE ] Because I'm a nice guy. [ QUOTE ] From your ignorance alone I can tell I would love to see you in a tourney at my table anytime. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, you're the angry kind. Okay. Would you like to play a nice HU freezeout sometime? [ QUOTE ] I really call into question a large portion of this communities actual understanding of the varations of play between a cash game and a tourtment! Especially after how many people have simply brushed this post off. [/ QUOTE ] We've brushed it off because this is the ten thousandth thread on the subject and you never bothered lurking before posting. [ QUOTE ] In a tourt simply being a favorite doesn't mean you want to play for all your chips, especialy in the early stages! [/ QUOTE ] When you play me HU, your skill advantage is huge so make sure to fold a lot.
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#24
04-18-2005, 10:01 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
Well just as AA is a huge favorite against everything else but doesn't ALWAYS win, I had expectations that the thread would spark some sensible discussion, but I knew that there would be reflex flamers.
I am pretty sure that I am going in too often, even if I am a favorite, or even a big favorite in any particular hand. But I am not sure how to adjust.
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#25
04-18-2005, 10:02 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
Who Said me? Many top professionals would consider themselfs in such a situation very often! [/ QUOTE ] And when they have aces, they always call. [ QUOTE ] Who said ACES??? I didn't thats for sure! [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Now lets say your playing on the major tourney circuit with tourtaments of at least 500 people. In your first 6 tournaments im going to deal u Aces first hand. Another very poor opponent will get 8's every time and go allin in front of you. All 6 times u call (of course right)... 5times u win and double up, 1 time you lose your buyin. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Has the extra 10,000 chips really increased your chance of winning the tournament by that much that it was worth risking elimination? This is at the very least worth a discussion! [/ QUOTE ] No it isn't [ QUOTE ] I really think your missing my point. Please read the all the post. Everyone decided to claim this was simply a bad beat story, it wasn't! He was asking a question. Trying to improve his understanding of tourtment play. [/ QUOTE ] Start with your own
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#26
04-18-2005, 10:09 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that I am going in too often, even if I am a favorite, or even a big favorite in any particular hand. [/ QUOTE ] If you were talking about situations when you are a 51-53% favorite, you may have had a point. At 80%, this is a bad beat post. If your actual problem is that you find yourself at 8-10 BB too much, you should probably steal more and play more flops early. It seems, though, that you just don't like going all in because you're scared of losing. That's bad poker, a beginner's mistake and leads to endless 'omg it's a 10K tournament what if I can outplay them as more than a 4:1 favorite later*???' posts that I'm bored enough to post five word replies to. *every time somebody seriously thinks that, Phil Hellmuth kills a kitten
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#28
04-18-2005, 10:15 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
Can you imagine getting away from the hand? Standard raise is called (in one or more places). Flop comes Qxx, are you really going to be able to put him on QQ as opposed to AQ or KK or a flush draw or whatever and get away from the hand?
Early stages of a tournament, players will call big raises with any pair because of the huge implied odds when they hit their set. I find getting away from those hands with your overpair to be one of the hardest things in MTTs. And am always looking for advice on how to do it...
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#29
04-18-2005, 10:17 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
I have a suggestion . . . if you find the discussion so boring, click ignore this thread.
I am actually not afraid enough of going in. I am going in a lot, stealing a lot, and busting out as the favorite a lot. What I am NOT doing is WINNING a lot. So flame away, but I am looking for intelligent discussion. And, I want it so much that I am willing to put up with anything (hint, hint) to get to it.
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#30
04-18-2005, 10:19 PM
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Re: All in before the flop. Didn\'t need to be.
WOW you managed a whole 15 words and almost a complete sentence!!! As i look through many of your over 2,000 posts its easy to see how u got there! I have found 5 single word post on the first page alone NICE!!!
No or Yes usually don’t do it, but I guess your the un-humble, always right grandmaster of poker tournaments. I guess I should appreciate the fragmented sentences you have posted on this subject, since it seems to be a real milestone for you!!!
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