One reason why I love -,50/1,-- Empire Poker - Page 2

Dave G. · #11 04-16-2005, 02:55 PM

You managed to suck out with a flopped straight, congrats. However, your preflop play is atrocious. There's simply no circumstance where you should play JTo from UTG. Ever.

I won't even begin to tell you how much calling the cap sucks. Making a play like this and then criticising the other players as "stupid" is... well, embaressing.

teajay · #12 04-16-2005, 02:59 PM

Muck preflop.

Travis

Ivanapolis · #13 04-16-2005, 03:09 PM

Hahahahahaha!!!! You guys are tremendous! Fact is that I had the best starting-hand preflop of all players who had gone to the showdown - 64s, 92, A6. I don't wanted to discuss, if it is right to call the flop UTG with JTo, I know that is normally wrong. But I am playing my opponents. And I do seldom call with this hand. JTo is very easy to play postflop against these opponents. But once more: Right is of course to fold this.

I only wanted to talk about the fact, how profitable it could be to play against maniac opponents. But I think it's senceless.

Catt · #14 04-16-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahaha!!!! You guys are tremendous! Fact is that I had the best starting-hand preflop of all players who had gone to the showdown - 64s, 92, A6. I don't wanted to discuss, if it is right to call the flop UTG with JTo, I know that is normally wrong. But I am playing my opponents. And I do seldom call with this hand. JTo is very easy to play postflop against these opponents. But once more: Right is of course to fold this.

I only wanted to talk about the fact, how profitable it could be to play against maniac opponents. But I think it's senceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things:

1. If it's just a thread to show playing against maniacs, then it is a waste of space -- find one of the other jillion threads of maniac hands (use search) and just post in that thread.

2. "Playing your opponents" by limping a crappy hand UTG is more like playing with yourself.

FishHooks · #15 04-16-2005, 03:26 PM

by the way A6 is a better hand than JT if your taking heads up and percentage wise

Ivanapolis · #16 04-16-2005, 03:28 PM

<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
Hahahahahaha!!!! You guys are tremendous! Fact is that I had the best starting-hand preflop of all players who had gone to the showdown - 64s, 92, A6. I don't wanted to discuss, if it is right to call the flop UTG with JTo, I know that is normally wrong. But I am playing my opponents. And I do seldom call with this hand. JTo is very easy to play postflop against these opponents. But once more: Right is of course to fold this.

I only wanted to talk about the fact, how profitable it could be to play against maniac opponents. But I think it's senceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things:

1. If it's just a thread to show playing against maniacs, then it is a waste of space -- find one of the other jillion threads of maniac hands (use search) and just post in that thread.

2. "Playing your opponents" by limping a crappy hand UTG is more like playing with yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. How to play against maniacs is one of the most important things to raise your win-rate in low limits.

2. I do not agree. This hand plays well in multiway-pots with lot of action and could easy be folded.

Ivanapolis · #17 04-16-2005, 03:31 PM

That's right. And 22 is better than AK heads up. But not with many opps.

Catt · #18 04-16-2005, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahaha!!!! You guys are tremendous! Fact is that I had the best starting-hand preflop of all players who had gone to the showdown - 64s, 92, A6. I don't wanted to discuss, if it is right to call the flop UTG with JTo, I know that is normally wrong. But I am playing my opponents. And I do seldom call with this hand. JTo is very easy to play postflop against these opponents. But once more: Right is of course to fold this.

I only wanted to talk about the fact, how profitable it could be to play against maniac opponents. But I think it's senceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things:

1. If it's just a thread to show playing against maniacs, then it is a waste of space -- find one of the other jillion threads of maniac hands (use search) and just post in that thread.

2. "Playing your opponents" by limping a crappy hand UTG is more like playing with yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. How to play against maniacs is one of the most important things to raise your win-rate in low limits.

2. I do not agree. This hand plays well in multiway-pots with lot of action and could easy be folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got to run, so I'm not bailing out of the discussion, but:

1. Limping JTo UTG when playing against maniacs is just about the textbook definition of how not to play against maniacs and how to negatively impact your win-rate. If you're up against maniacs, do you really want to pay 2 or 3 bets to see a flop with this hand out of position?

2. This hand plays at best OK in a mulitway pot. It's lack of suitedness is a major weakness, and its card values are "in the zone" of many starting hands, including maniac hands. Against maniacs this will be an incredibly difficult hand to play post-flop OOP. What do you do when your pre-flop action is the same, the flop comes AK2 with two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s and a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

Ivanapolis · #19 04-16-2005, 03:48 PM

<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
Hahahahahaha!!!! You guys are tremendous! Fact is that I had the best starting-hand preflop of all players who had gone to the showdown - 64s, 92, A6. I don't wanted to discuss, if it is right to call the flop UTG with JTo, I know that is normally wrong. But I am playing my opponents. And I do seldom call with this hand. JTo is very easy to play postflop against these opponents. But once more: Right is of course to fold this.

I only wanted to talk about the fact, how profitable it could be to play against maniac opponents. But I think it's senceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things:

1. If it's just a thread to show playing against maniacs, then it is a waste of space -- find one of the other jillion threads of maniac hands (use search) and just post in that thread.

2. "Playing your opponents" by limping a crappy hand UTG is more like playing with yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. How to play against maniacs is one of the most important things to raise your win-rate in low limits.

2. I do not agree. This hand plays well in multiway-pots with lot of action and could easy be folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got to run, so I'm not bailing out of the discussion, but:

1. Limping JTo UTG when playing against maniacs is just about the textbook definition of how not to play against maniacs and how to negatively impact your win-rate. If you're up against maniacs, do you really want to pay 2 or 3 bets to see a flop with this hand out of position?

2. This hand plays at best OK in a mulitway pot. It's lack of suitedness is a major weakness, and its card values are "in the zone" of many starting hands, including maniac hands. Against maniacs this will be an incredibly difficult hand to play post-flop OOP. What do you do when your pre-flop action is the same, the flop comes AK2 with two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s and a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. You told it more than on time that you wouldn't call it, and I have said more than one time that I normally would agree. But that has nothing to do with your first post: "If it's just a thread to show playing against maniacs, then it is a waste of space -- find one of the other jillion threads of maniac hands (use search) and just post in that thread."

2. In this worst case scenario you must look for the pot odds and implied odds. But although it's not difficult to manage.

LipBalmGuy · #20 04-16-2005, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahaha!!!! You guys are tremendous! Fact is that I had the best starting-hand preflop of all players who had gone to the showdown - 64s, 92, A6. I don't wanted to discuss, if it is right to call the flop UTG with JTo, I know that is normally wrong. But I am playing my opponents. And I do seldom call with this hand. JTo is very easy to play postflop against these opponents. But once more: Right is of course to fold this.

I only wanted to talk about the fact, how profitable it could be to play against maniac opponents. But I think it's senceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with a point that Ivanapolis is making, but I disagree with this play in general.

What I can agree with is that some game conditions can make it correct to play JTo UTG. But for one bet only.

Game conditions must be: <ul type="square">[*]many players see the flop for only one bet[*]several players go to the river, re-raising and capping every street[*]these table conditions must be stable so you know they'll happen this hand too[/list]Only then can JTo get the huge implied odds in future betting rounds versus the cheap peek at the flop. When those conditions are met, you'll rarely hit but will clean up when you do.

However, calling a preflop cap is too expensive and should be folded.