I suck and I'm a pussy (and I'm an idiot)

[Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Maybe I suck, but closing the action getting 16:1 I am hard pressed to muck this.

[RollingRockMike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call me whatever, but I'm folding the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting 14:1.

That means you need about 3 outs to be OK.

There are very few hands you can put UTG+1/button on that hero has < 3 outs. (like KK vs AK vs hero is one... and you still have 2!!!!).

Dont fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. Which outs are good and which ones are you paying someone off? It's a small bet into a fairly large pot, but if you hit there's still a lot of bets to go. Unsurprisingly, that's exactly what happened. Your reverse implied odds suck and so do your implied odds; in my opinion they are poor enough to unjustify the pot odds.

I think he misplayed every street and would have saved himself a lot of trouble by just folding this marginal hand preflop.

Mike

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Maybe I suck, but closing the action getting 16:1 I am hard pressed to muck this.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is almost no chance that my hand is good. Folding in large pots is usually bad but calling after a very passive player wakes up and raises two people on the river is also bad.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. Which outs are good and which ones are you paying someone off? It's a small bet into a fairly large pot, but if you hit there's still a lot of bets to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt matter. Yes, sometimes you will be forced to payoff. But we have WAY more than 3 effective outs here. Its not even close.

The range of hands these players can have is such that folding is really bad. It's not unthinkable that we have 10 outs here. I would say a good average is 5-6.

[ QUOTE ]
Unsurprisingly, that's exactly what happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results dont matter.

[ QUOTE ]
Your reverse implied odds suck

[/ QUOTE ]

Reverse implied odds are at work when

A) Hero might have the best hand
B) Hero has little chance of improving
C) Opposition bets
D) Opposition has abilty to slowdown when behind, but charge you the max when ahead
E) Your effective odds on a calldown are not great

In this case:

A) Hero doesnt think he has the best hand
B) Hero has a very good chance of improving
E) Effective odds on a calldown (assuming you catch) are not poor.

[ QUOTE ]
and so do your implied odds; in my opinion they are poor enough to unjustify the pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are getting WAY more than enough odds to call (which itself should be enough to call), but we are certainly going to get paid off when we hit.

[CallMeIshmael]

Also... giving villians VERY unfavourable ranges, we have an equity

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 21.0373 % [ 00.15 00.06 ] { AcQs }
Hand 2: 53.7318 % [ 00.49 00.05 ] { AA-TT, AKs, AKo }
Hand 3: 25.2309 % [ 00.20 00.05 ] { AA-88, AKs-ATs, KQs-KJs, AKo-AJo, KQo }

There is no way either of these players are that tight, AND AA-JJ + AK are less likely because of the no cap.

Even with this range, we only need 3.76-1 on a call down.

We are getting WAY WAY more than that. Folding is a mistake.

[Perseus]

So is folding here the general standard for everyone?

Wow, this is why I'm not winning. I call this down, as I think the pot is big enough.

God I suck

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
So is folding here the general standard for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Just against a 41/0/0.17, a raise tends to mean I have more than a pair.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
So is folding here the general standard for everyone?

Wow, this is why I'm not winning. I call this down, as I think the pot is big enough.

God I suck

[/ QUOTE ]

A river raise from a passive player, especially in a non HU situation, often means a pair is not good.

[Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Maybe I suck, but closing the action getting 16:1 I am hard pressed to muck this.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is almost no chance that my hand is good. Folding in large pots is usually bad but calling after a very passive player wakes up and raises two people on the river is also bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, hence the maybe i suck comment. Actually, I should have ditched the "maybe".

[Yodaman]

Call me noob but can someone clarify what each of the #s stand for?

And not some abbreviation. Thanks.