Anyone else get email from Empire about running a bot?

[Hung]

It is fair. They can spend the same $50 on Pokertracker that I did.

True, but party shouldn't allow people to datamine.
You can analyse your own hands and the hands from the players with whom you've played with. But leaving your pc on for 24/7 to get extra info is just not right. It's more an ethical issue, it's like cheating, making extra accounts, abusing bonuses. I used to datamine too. I had every single skin open. I even had pokernow open on antother pc. I decided to stop because I don't like people doing it so why should I do it myself?

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
The bottom line is online pros are too greedy. They want everything and they want it now and they don't give a [censored] about the longterm health of the game. Would you rather make 60k a year for the next 20 years? Or 125k a year for the next two years until online poker is ruined? A good player can make significant money playing online w/o pokertracker. Fish are at enough of a disadvantage with their terrible play...if datamining, 8-tableing pros take over the games, they will rarely win. They will lose too much, too fast. They will lose interest in the game. The more sophisticated these devices get, the worse the games will become overtime. Datamining should NOT BE ALLOWED. I have no problem looking at hands you've played...but leaving ur cpu on 24/7, getting unlimited free info on other players. This is bad for the game's longterm health. But today's pros are too blind to see it. Better brush off that resume.

Games on sites that don't allow this are, imho, better in many ways...and they will STAY good.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly doubt this. Suckers knowingly take the raw end of bets everday in a casino. How many numbers are there on a roulette wheel (38-39??) and what do they pay to hit a number (36-1???), anyway I really think you guys are overreacting.

I dislike datamining, and I agree steps should be taken to prevent it. But saying that these other tools are going to ruin the game is nonsense.

Example of why:

Last night Absolute 5/10 shorthanded. Major maniac fish sucks out hard on a decent but typically passive players AA. The two verbally tangle for the next couple hands and it is getting personal, decent player is calling the maniac a moron, maniac is calling decent player a F@ggot etc..

Anyway the decent player is spouting odds, averages blah, blah, blah. Over the next 45 min the maniac almost singlehandedly busts the decent player, to the toon of about $400.

Now this maniac sucks bad. I have seen him lose $400-600 on consecutive nights at 5/10, and usually he is good to drop $200 evertime he sits down.

What does this story have to do with anything. Well, when the maniac goes to the bar and has a couple beers with his buddies, which stroy do you think he will tell? The one about the multiple times he lost all his money and had to reload? Or about the night he stayed up till 3:30 in the morning and busted some arrogant smartass?

This is what keeps the fish coming, and it will take more that PT, PV, GT, and the occasional bot scare to keep them away.

[Exsubmariner]

In the interests of making the discussion objective, I feel I have to disclose a couple of things. First, I do not datamine. I don't do this for a reason previously mentioned in this thread. Namely, that the rocks, eagles, and mice will be by far the categories that populate my database and I wouldn't get anything out of having a larger, slower database that I wouldn't figure out in 30 hands anyway. Secondly, I do use PT and find it an invaluable tool to my learning and growth as a player. I don't mind at all that party reveals cards of my opponents at showdown because I can see where I made a mistake in the play of the hand and learn from it. If they made such a hand history available only to players who were dealt in the game, I wouldn't mind at all. I also run PV. It is a tool like everything else. If I was playing only one table, I probably could figure out intuitively who the rocks were in my game. But I play four tables. With the amount of folding needed to play a proper game of poker, I don't find that too taxing at all. I have played other sites, two or three tables open, or what they allowed.
What does annoy me ceaslessly is when I find a good table with 4 or 5 fishy types playing there that has a waiting list that is 15 players long. Why bother? By the time I sit down the texture of the game has changed into a rock garden. And they just sit there, they don't leave. I am also annoyed that when I get to play a really good table (I consider this a VP$IP of ABOVE 19%) that it is only repopulated by rocks and eagles if anyone leaves.
Back on point. I wouldn't mind at all if party flagged dataminers. I also wouldn't mind it much if they put the screws on someone who is playing logged on to multiple skins at the same IP address. These players are, truth be told, damaging the game. If party becomes filled with them, Party will parish. I think they know this.

[grimel]

So Party decides we have a 2 table limit (AP and UB have a 3 limit). Who says the 8/16 table players don't play 3 at AP, 3 at UB, 2 at Party, 2 at Empire, etc?

If hand histories are available, someone will have a way to export it to PT.

[Pinga]

[ QUOTE ]
Well speaking purely objectively, it wouldn't matter. I'm not the only programmer who's going to write this kinda stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect there are dozens of others here with the skills to bypass everything currently in place. There is no such thing as security. No matter how much you protect it, someone with enough resources and skill can get around it.

The poker apps are getting very invasive. I would flame any other app that tried this. I'm starting to wonder if they are going to record my keystrokes while I'm logging into my bank. I prefer programs that mind their own business. I am starting to think I need to protect myself from my poker application even though I would not cheat.

On the other hand, everything they are doing seems to be in the spirit of catching cheaters. This I approve of.

When you install and run a poker application, it can pretty much do what it wants. They can capture your IRC traffic and record it. They see what programs you are running. As someone suggested, the reason they are looking for notepad and calculator is that people are renaming their bots. They could have a CS rep watching your computer real-time if they felt like it. I'm not saying they coded this or do this, just that it is easy to accomplish.

Unless they are looking to do a lot of extra work, they are comparing the running copy of notepad with a known version so they don't flag every fool who has notepad open. But who knows? Giving the benefit of the doubt (which I think he deserves) the OP seems to have been flagged for no reason at all.

The only way to stop people from recording tables they are not playing at is to not allow them to open the table at all. Force them to ante up to see the action. Even then, you could not stop the players from sharing what they saw.

I don't see anything wrong with the suggestion that people be able to change their displayed name at every login. If you are a social player you can use the same name all the time. Your other friends who are social playes will do the same.

Best,
Pinga

[flair1239]

One other thing, if it is multi-tabling TAG types that we think are the problem, the #1 thing the party network could do, is get their various sites together and force users to play one-skin and one skin only.

Let's see how many people like that idea.

[Pinga]

Someone who really wanted to do it would manage to do it anyway.

People are already going out of their way to scrounge up bonus money.

[Stan the man]

[ QUOTE ]
Datamining should NOT BE ALLOWED.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Exsubmariner]

An Addendum....
What about limiting the number of people in any table's waiting list to 5?
I think I will send that suggestion to Party in an e-mail regarding their next mod. Would make for more even distribution of fish and keep the games from accumulating rocks.
If you choose "any table" in the join waiting list function, you would only be added to tables with lists less than five. If too many tables had lists of 5, new tables would be opened and the lists emptied to those tables. HMMM.
Ideas, flames, critisms?
X

[Jeffage]

I like it.

Jeff