Walk through this ATo from the BB with me.

uw_madtown · #1 04-14-2005, 02:08 AM

I'm at 3/6 in sthief's OIC challenge (thanks for this btw, sthief -- it's propelled me to really get back to work on poker after a few months of a breakeven streak and lack of time).

Fresh to the table -- only player I have in PT is the LAG, who's a 45/6 player.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(LAG)/ calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown...

jclin · #2 04-14-2005, 02:20 AM

You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

I like check/call on flop. You must hope for better EV on turn. If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order. If blank, check/call and bet a river blank. Fold to any JQK non-spade on turn.

crunchy1 · #3 04-14-2005, 08:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise by MP would be a great thing after you lead out - which you should. You are using MP to force out hands that could beat you on the turn or the river and would call one bet but not two. This works best for the CO/SB but could also cause UTG to fold a weak hand as well if he fears a raise from MP and doesn't want to put more than one bet in on the flop (I know - this is asking a lot from an unknown UTG - but it's worth considering). You also shouldn't risk the chance of giving a free card on this flop. I wouldn't feel good if the flop got checked through and a Q, J or K hit the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best... ...You must hope for better EV on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is EV?

[ QUOTE ]
If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we're going to bet our flush draw on the turn to build a pot for if we hit on the river - why not start on the flop where Hero is already likely holding the best hand?

Gob_Bluth · #4 04-14-2005, 08:47 AM

Top (two) pair, top kicker, backdoor flush- I feel the raise by mp3 would do your hand good, as it will force out the co and sb (hopefully) leaving mp3 to beat your hand with either a higher pockets (against which you have outs) or a draw to overcards of which a possible A will make you shout PWNED... Lead out.

(Completely new- but have been lurking a While... working on the lingo.)

Donk · #5 04-14-2005, 08:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at 3/6 in sthief's OIC challenge (thanks for this btw, sthief -- it's propelled me to really get back to work on poker after a few months of a breakeven streak and lack of time).

Fresh to the table -- only player I have in PT is the LAG, who's a 45/6 player.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(LAG)/ calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I am assuming SB checked too. I bet here and hope the pf raiser blows away the field with a raise.

adamstewart · #6 04-14-2005, 09:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm at 3/6 in sthief's OIC challenge (thanks for this btw, sthief -- it's propelled me to really get back to work on poker after a few months of a breakeven streak and lack of time).

Fresh to the table -- only player I have in PT is the LAG, who's a 45/6 player.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(LAG)/ calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I am assuming SB checked too. I bet here and hope the pf raiser blows away the field with a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB = LAG

adamstewart · #7 04-14-2005, 09:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

I like check/call on flop. You must hope for better EV on turn. If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order. If blank, check/call and bet a river blank. Fold to any JQK non-spade on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Adam

adamstewart · #8 04-14-2005, 09:14 AM

Bet, and welcome MP3's raise (if it happens).

Adam

Donk · #9 04-14-2005, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

I like check/call on flop. You must hope for better EV on turn. If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order. If blank, check/call and bet a river blank. Fold to any JQK non-spade on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not betting the flop here is horrific.

Blindly betting a turn [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] without considering many other factors is retarded.

Pokey · #10 04-14-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

[/ QUOTE ]

I just can't see the logic to this. Why are you so hesitant to say you're ahead on this flop? In the only likely bad-case scenarios, you've got about 6.5 outs to a winner (three aces, two tens, 1.5 for the runner-runner flush). (OK, he could have AA in the hole, but given that you've got one of them, that's even less likely than usual, and it doesn't pay to see monsters under every bed.) More often than not, you've got him dead to rights and drawing to at most 6 outs. If he's got an ace (not unlikely), he's reverse-dominated and drawing to three outs.

YHIG -- bet it and punish the chasers.