What to do on the flop?

[Demana]

Live $6/12 Full Ring Game

Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4iamond:

Preflop:
UTG <font color="red">raises</font>, UTG1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls

5 Players for a 10 SB pot.

Preflop Reads:
UTG's raise means AA-99, Any two suited cards ten or higher.
UTG1's call means any pair or any ace.
MP2's call means nothing. He is the major LAG who plays any two cards. Probably would 3-bet with AA or KK.
Button's call means any medium pair (77, 88, or 99), any suited connectors, KQ, or KJ. He would have 3-bet with AA-TT or AK. He's also a bit on tilt.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG <font color="red">bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 folds, Button <font color="red">raises</font>

Pot is now 14 SB.

Postflop Reads:
UTG will bet any hand if checked to.
UTG1's call more likely means over cards because he would raise top pair or a set to try to push out any draws. He migh have a pocket pair smaller than a Jack.
Button's raise is either most likely top pair, equal possibility of a set or a draw.

Hero should do what and why?

[Chris_P]

Three-betting the flop is the way in this hand, not only does it put more money in the pot for when u hit u may get a free card on the turn if u miss, if u miss the turn your easily getting over the odds to call for your flush on the river....

[spydog]

3-bet the flop for value. You only need 2 callers for a nut 4-flush to be for value. Another bonus would be to fold out a better Ace than yours, thus giving yourself 3 more potential outs in a sizeable/growing pot. Plus, 3-betting will disguise your hand so you may get extra action if your flush card hits when it also completes someone's straight draw.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
Postflop Reads:
UTG will bet any hand if checked to.
UTG1's call more likely means over cards because he would raise top pair or a set to try to push out any draws. He migh have a pocket pair smaller than a Jack.
Button's raise is either most likely top pair, equal possibility of a set or a draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see merit in both calling and raising. Calling will keep the two EPs in the hand. Raising will probably knock them out (with the reads that you have) and only keep the LP in the hand.

Although I think the difference is small, I would raise to cleanse my A outs. This might also allow you to pick up the pot on the turn with a bet if the two EPs fold and a big card comes.

(There I go...finally decided to post)

[Demana]

A couple of questions:

#1 Is this a case where it is valid to try to clean up Ace outs?

#2 A lot of us beginners don't 3-bet because we want people to pay us off if we hit the flush draw (this was my reason for only calling). Is the pot big enough now that we should invest the extra bet to try to maximize our chances of winning it rather than looking for a bigger pay off?

#3 If Hero had botton pair + the flush draw (say the 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] instead of the 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]), would calling be more valid because anyone with an Ace will also pay off Hero's two pair if an Ace comes?

[SeeWillie]

Probably no free card here because Hero is first to act.

[SmileyEH]

Standard call, you aren't getting free cards and there is no point giving other players the chance to dump.

-SmileyEH

[Demana]

[ QUOTE ]
Standard call, you aren't getting free cards and there is no point giving other players the chance to dump.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't favor a 3-bet in hopes of cleaning up your Ace outs? While it is possible that UTG has AJ or UTG1 won't fold to the 3-bet, it isn't worth the effort of out clean up?

btw - If UTG had AJ, she would definitely 3-bet herself, maybe (20% likelyhood) cap it if 3-bet to her.

[MoreWineII]

Isn't there an example of a nearly identical hand in SSH?

[Demana]

That hand includes a backdoor straight draw and doesn't include player reads. Means one less out and a different set of reasons for raising or calling.