Stud 8 simulation

[SuitedBaby]

I was looking around my favorites on a computer I was about to reformat and I came across this link that I had been searching for for some time:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~prock/poker/hilo-10000-sorted

It is a link to a page by I believe Andrew Prock who is a quite a knowledgeable stud 8 player in my opinion. Prock some time ago posted a link to this on RGP but I can't find the post.

This a simulation of all of the 1755 different stud 8 starting hands and how they fair against 6 other (7-handed) random starting hands in a show-down simulation to the river. Since this is showdown poker what card is in the door doesn't affect the sim and of course AcAd4d = AsAh4s. Also naturally each hand shown represents a varying number of actual hands. Now I realize these types of simulations are of limited value but I thought anyone who hadn't seen something like this for stud 8 might be interested.

I have been working with the Wilson software for stud 8 and I am contemplating doing a simulation for stud 8 starting hands using computer players instead of showdown poker. I would guess that the work has already been done by someone but I haven't seen it. This would be something like the tables in Bill Boston's manuscript on Omaha 8. The project is pretty intimidating due to size and I wonder if it will be of any significant value. I think playing skills involving board cards are so important and variable in stud 8 compared to Omaha 8 that simulations may have less value.

If anyone has worked with the Wilson stud 8 program I'd like to hear about your experience. Any imput would be appreciated.

[count1]

I use the Wilson software primarily to stay sharp and work on my memorizing skills. I have done some simulations and would like to use this feature more. Am interested in seeing your results. If you need someone to run some hands let me know.

[SuitedBaby]

That is interesting that you mention using the program to improve memorization skills because that is why I originally bought it. The pause on 3rd street feature was very helpful as I was trying to work out various techniques.

I don't have any useful hand simulation results yet since I am more or less in the planning stages. What I have been working on is developing different lineups trying to toughen the field and more accurately simulate live playing conditions. If I had unlimited time I would like to see hand simulations compared at multiple different table line-ups and several different numbers of players. Right now, at my level of understanding of the program, I am overwhelmed by the data entry that would be required on the Wilson program and I am looking at ways to automize the process. Ideas?

[Andy B]

I used a demo of the Wilson software about five years ago and it has some holes in it. I haven't seen anything on the Books/Software forum to make me think that that has changed. So while what you are proposing doing might lead to a more accurate list than Prock's, it probably would still have some inaccuracies.

And I don't think that there is a lot of value in ranking the hands anyway. If I remember correctly, 888 has more equity than KKK. Does that mean you're going to play KKK any less strongly? Of course not. Sklansky's hand rankings, while certainly not the be-all and end-all, are useful in helping you evaluate your pre-flop hand, especially since hold'em starting hands don't change in value all that much. Stud and stud/8 hands can change in value dramatically depending on what's showing and what the action is. What might be a raising hand in one scenario becomes a fold in another.

(Of course, this happens in hold'em, too. AQo is usually worth raising with, but if someone raises in front of you, you can't call with it unless he is a very loose raiser or might be on a steal.)

BTW, Prock used to post here back in the day, and he does know his stuff.