KQo in position - Error, but maybe not an error?

AlphaMeridian · #1 04-13-2005, 04:27 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Standard, I hope.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Good. 2 Pair. I certainly can't check through.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

Uhoh. It didn't occur to me until the LAST raise in this sequence that I was calling a TAG ca[(at the time, his numbers got to 22/4/1.15 by the end of his session)

When I started to think about this hand after the fact, I thought "I've made a major mistake here, I should have respected his raise and called it down from there." But then I thought, wait, this isn't per se a Loose Passive Fish with no aggression waking up, woudln't it make SENSE to 3bet this? I'm stuck between lines on this. Either I give him credit for a hand here and I call down, or I don't, and I raise, and I can't choose between them. Thoughts on reasoning?

River: (11.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

-Alpha

deepsquat · #2 04-13-2005, 04:43 AM

I like this hand. Id like it alot more if villain didnt cap the turn.

If he hit his set of 5's then good luck to him.

Nice hand.

thesharpie · #3 04-13-2005, 05:18 AM

It does look like you're up against a set. Against a loose player preflop I might 3 bet as he could just as likely have a ragged 2 pair, but villain is unlikely to play a hand with an 8 or 5 in it that hits a 2 pair, he is likely to play 88 or 55 though. You also have a king and a queen so it's unlikely he's doing this with top pair, plus he doesn't seem to have high enough aggression to do this with top pair.

I call down even though it seems passive.

d00nut · #4 04-13-2005, 05:25 AM

Been lurking for several months now, prodded into posting by Grunch Can's post.

I like your line. Pre-flop and flop are obviously fine. As far as the turn, I'd probably close the action instead of repopping. Against a tight opponent, I can only see a set of 8s here. It doesn't make sense to me for him to call a bet with 3 overs on the board to hit a set on the turn, and I don't think a tight player would still be in with anything that makes 2 pair.

Thinking about it a bit more, I might give villain credit for K8s/K5s, but a much lower percentage of the time than he has 88 I think. I would close the action on the turn and check/call the river and expect to be beaten.

How'd I do my first time?

jaxUp · #5 04-13-2005, 05:54 AM

Error, but not a very big error, for the reasons you mentioned. Good thought process though. It can feel great to make a realization like that.

Yako · #6 04-13-2005, 06:22 AM

`grunching`
Either that 5 on the turn gave him 2 pair or a set, and if he's TAG, I doubt it gave him a set because I doubt he'd have gone to the turn with his pp of 5s. Therefore, the only thing that 5 could have logically given him is a weaker 2pair than yours, unless he is slowplaying a set of 8s ('cause he would likely have raised QQ or KK pf). As such, I definitely think you should try to cap the river instead of just calling down, because you are gonna be ahead the vast majority of the time here.

Felipe · #7 04-13-2005, 10:12 AM

it all looks fine to me. I think what you did was perfect. I don't think a tight player would chase a two outter (5,5). 8-8-8 slowplayed is another possibility. Did you get any reads on the guy? Does he often sandbag?

What are the results anyways? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Rosencrantz1 · #8 04-13-2005, 10:28 AM

Very well thought out, but my $.02 is...

I think it's very unlikely he's slowplaying bottom set (either the 8s after the flop or the 5s after the turn). If so, I give him a lot of credit for having a great read on you.

If the guy's tight, then I agree that it's very unlikely he's on K5/K8.

I think he's on K/Q and you guys are chopping.

gvibes · #9 04-13-2005, 11:41 AM

I like it the whole way.

AlphaMeridian · #10 04-13-2005, 01:21 PM

88 for the slowplayed set. I kinda felt like a doofus after the loss, which triggered the "what the **** were you doing here, Alpha?" feeling. Then again, I think I'm married to my current line - C/Ring the flop on a set, leading the turn, that I haven't considered the other line (smoothcalling the flop, raising the turn). I'm relatively new to 1/2 as well, and it's been QUITE A TRIP as 1/2 and .5/1 are completely different for me.

-Alpha