Am I too aggressive (optimal play)?

[Chizoad]

I've just started playing sng's. I usually play 5-10 short. After 10 tournies (small sample I know) I have the following results:

10+1: 3 1st, 4 4th, 1 9th
20+2: 1 6th
100+9: 1 1st

What I find interesting is the number of bubble finishes I have compared to the wins. It seems like I either win it all or bubble out trying to push it and get a huge stack when everyone else is trying to squeak into the money.

Does anyone know, or can anyone calculate if it would be better to finish (1st/4th) or (sneak in the money). Basically I'm just trying to optimize my bubble play. Thanks.

Chiz

[davehwm]

Duck!!

[Rolen]

We could probably derive more accurate conclusions from the alignment of the moon with respect to venus about your bubble play or whatever than from this info. That said, you did ask a question..I prefer to sneak in to 3rd + then gamble it up for 1st. A first place + a third place is better than 2 second places, and is probably easier to achieve.

[Chizoad]

"We could probably derive more accurate conclusions from the alignment of the moon with respect to venus about your bubble play or whatever than from this info."

Heh. Fair enough. You'll have to forgive me. I'm not used to posting in this forum and I don't yet know what info you guys need.

I'm basically extremely aggressive, raising all-in when I'm in a steal position, with almost any two, if I have fold equity and I know the player isn't likely to call without a really solid hand. That seems like most people, honestly. I won't do it if someone will be obligated to call because of pot odds.

Several times my aggression has left me in 4th when there was a tight short stack who was probably going to be blinded off. I guess I should sneak in more often.

[Rolen]

Yup, general consensus is at least 500 SNGs before any sort of relevence starts to emerge. Even that is far too few for some. I try to think of steals on the bubble as something to try to avoid if there's a short stack. Not only do you get at least 3rd place if the smallie busts but if you steal later, you're not only stealing from less people (less risk) but the blinds will likely be higher also. Your pushing with any two strategy is sound, but only in the correct circumstance.

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
Yup, general consensus is at least 500 SNGs before any sort of relevence starts to emerge. Even that is far too few for some. I try to think of steals on the bubble as something to try to avoid if there's a short stack. Not only do you get at least 3rd place if the smallie busts but if you steal later, you're not only stealing from less people (less risk) but the blinds will likely be higher also. Your pushing with any two strategy is sound, but only in the correct circumstance.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the bubble with a short stack present is the perfect time to steal. Your opponents, will have very high calling requirements because they do not want to give up their "lock".

To the OP: Aggressive play as the blinds get high is a general principal is sound. However, you need to excersise some judgement. There will be situations where stealing is not the right strategy and folding into the money is indicated.

Paul

[RobGW]

[ QUOTE ]
I try to think of steals on the bubble as something to try to avoid if there's a short stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to steal even more when there is a shorty on the bubble because of people like you wanting to sneak in the money.

[Chizoad]

Typically I'm still only stealing from 1 or 2 players when it's 4 handed. That isn't changing much when it gets down to 3 handed, except that they'll be more likely to call my steal raises because they're guaranteed some cash.

Clearly, to me, it's better to steal 4 handed as opposed to 3 in these sngs. The question is just how often, and obviously this is extremely player/blinds/stack size dependant. I think I've probably gone a little overboard, but avoiding stealing here cannot be any better than stealing a little too much.

[nova]

Stealing on the bubble when short might be problematic if you have a loose caller who happens to have a big stack. Ace Rag and you are getting called and it holds up is a pretty frustrating thing, but you do what you can. Especially if you are less than 10 bb left

[Chizoad]

Like I said, player dependant. I'm not going to push into the big stack with J9 or some crap if I know they'll call with any ace or even biggish kings. In my limited recent sng experience I've avoided stealing in situations like this like the plague. All you can do there is raise for value with solid holdings if you have a lot of chips, or if your the short stack, push and pray.

Anyway, in general my question has more to do with how often I should steal when I'm not the short stack. When you're the short stack the play is generally pretty obvious imo, some subtleties aside.