SLICK and AQ--what do you do when you miss?

Tyler Durden · #1 02-20-2003, 12:26 PM

This seems to be a hole for me. If I get AK or AQ (suited or not) and I open raise, I often fail to make a pair on the flop or turn. Usually, if someone bets into me, I'll raise to represent a big pocket pair. But if a lot of players call that bet before it gets to me, I may just call or even fold.

But let's say it's heads-up, and the flop comes something like 8-4-3 rainbow. BB checks and calls my bet. Turn is a 9. Same play. Then the river is another blank. I'm inclined to check behind b/c he probably spiked a pair on the flop. Although sometimes I will "fire off one last round" and bet the river b/c players will fold the river sometimes, even if they did call the turn.

This has to be a problem for many low limit players, right?

davidross · #2 02-20-2003, 12:50 PM

There is certainly nothing wrong with raising pre-flop and then folding to a flop bet, especially in a pot with multiple players. Good players do this all the time. Heads up I find trickier, because of the possibility of a bluff. I try to play AK the same way I play AA on the flop heads up. If I get raised or bet into I just call. On the turn I raise with the made hand and decide how to play the unimproved hand at that time. At the limits I play most players will not lay down even bottom pair heads up so I have found it’s not worth it to keep representing the hand. I’ll save the bet on the river. If you check on the turn however you probably need to call the almost certain river bet unless you know the player will not bluff a busted draw in that situation.

Georgia Peach · #3 02-20-2003, 01:24 PM

Can you play AQ similar to AA or AK heads up? It would seem like you could.

techsan · #4 02-20-2003, 01:42 PM

I would be interested in what you guys think about this kind of situation as I find this to be a hole in my game.

I find it difficult to decide what to do when at the river and I face only 1 or two opponents and I have AK or AQ.

SoBeDude · #5 02-20-2003, 02:04 PM

Mason responded to one of my posts (Its around here somewhere), I think it was regarding AJo. But I think the concept works just as well here.

If the flop missed, usually its checked to you. Sometimes check here as well. Then if any face hits on the turn, you bet it out.

If an A, K, Q, or J hits on the turn and you bet, it sure looks like you hit a pair when you checked the flop and bet the turn. They'd be hard-pressed to call you with crap then.

I've been doing this play, mixing it up with straight betting the flop with two overcards. I think it really helps.

-Scott

Tyler Durden · #6 02-20-2003, 02:20 PM

But what if a rag hits on the turn? It'll be hard to represent a made hand then b/c of the flop check.

SoBeDude · #7 02-20-2003, 02:40 PM

But what if a rag hits on the turn? It'll be hard to represent a made hand then b/c of the flop check.

Very true. But here is the thing if your opponent hasn't bet in to you by the turn, you probably still have the best hand. Thus a bet on the turn - even if just rags are on the board - is a bet for value. You have the best hand now, and can still improve.

I'm probably 90% bet the turn with rags.

Something else to think about: If I check the turn with AK or AQ with rags on the board, I'll some times check the river as well when I miss. why? advertising. If I check down the river and show, say AQ it gives my next flop/turn bet instant credibility.

They'll think, "well, he checked to the river with AQ so he's betting this time, he must have paired that Jack (insert whatever face card hit)". So they fold, and I take it down.

-Scott

davidross · #8 02-20-2003, 05:21 PM

In these situations absolutely, any hand I raise with actually. But when I'm bet to on the turn I will be more careful with AQ or AJ because a lot of guys will cold call with AK. So with AK or a big pair I raise him on the, with AQ I am more likely to just call and call te river too. If he checks on th eriver then I bet. If the player is weak I will certainly still raise the AQ on the turn.

anatta · #9 02-21-2003, 02:27 AM

In the heads-up situation you described, I will turn over my AK at the end. Some games contain players who are watching your every move and will note that you play AK this way, and with a big pocket pair you will bet, so they will make good laydowns against you when you do have a big pocket pair. I don't think I play in these games. I just turn it over, if he has a pair, he should call. The guys I play with aren't morons either, they put me on a hand, AK, and will call with any pair, hoping to see AK. If he was on a draw and missed, you win.

It may feel wimpy, but you gotta learn to fold those overcards on the flop when you miss a great deal of the time. Not all the time, generally not with 1-2 opponents, but really a lot otherwise.

Mikey · #10 02-21-2003, 02:49 AM

LOL LOL, you sound just like me!!!!
I've put up a similar posts like this!!

-We all have this problem....my suggestion to you is this......

As Clarkmiester says, "time to do some homework." Research past posts on here about AK.

Also...Click on Essays on the right hand column here and check out the essay that Mason wrote about. "Calling with AK?"

I'm becoming better and better at playing the AK when I miss, experience and reading books helps a great deal and also advice that flies out of well respected 2+2ers does wonders as well.