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  #1  
Old 04-08-2005, 02:43 PM
Rduke55 Rduke55 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Default Bad push?

Sorry I don't have the hand history.
Pokerroom MTT. 22 left (40 paid). I have just below 14K which is about 14th or 15th place. I had about 26K but people are not letting me steal and am getting multiple callers on my standard PF raises.
BB is 2K. About to got to 3K in 4 minutes.
Middle position w/ Tc9c. I limp (first mistake? but the BB big stack has been calling everything PF). SB completes, BB checks. Flop is QcJh4s. SB checks, BB thinks for a while and bets out 3K. I push. He calls w/Jd7d and I'm out.
Should I have even been in this hand? Should I have raised PF? Should I have just called the 3K?
My thinking was that I'll be in the blinds soon, prolly after the blinds go up, there's 9K in the pot, and if he calls I have outs.
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  #2  
Old 04-08-2005, 03:32 PM
KazUK KazUK is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Default Re: Bad push?

I wouldnt even get involved with this hand. you have 14k and the BB is 2k, you need to wait for a big hand to push your chips in with. Maybe you could try making a move with this hand in late position, but i think it is a bad idea to call in middle position. Fold it, and wait for a hand to double up with.
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2005, 04:46 PM
Ace_Ren Ace_Ren is offline
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Default Re: Bad push?

To call an all-in with 2nd pair, crappy kicker, this guy had a good read on you.

Ask yourself why.

You had been attempting to steal, but now you're limping. Your steals were getting called. If you had a legitimate hand, you obviously would have bet it, expecting to get called. The limp says: suited connectors or 1 gappers, maybe a small pocket pair, and maybe AXs.

From my perspective, the only hand he's really worried about is if you have J/10s. He bets out with 2nd pair, expecting to take the pot. You make a very suspicious all-in. Something that looks like a very blatant steal attempt. A semi-bluff in this case. He can potentially knock you out of the tourney. He calls.

I would definitely recommend sitting this one out. You don't have the chip stack to go fishing. If you call, that's another 2k chips that you can't double up with, when you do get a good hand.

If you do get to the flop, consider just calling your opponent. He may now assume that you did indeed hit the J or potentially a Q. If he checks the turn, now you can push. The downside to this is that he may read you as being on a draw, in which case he'll do the heavy betting on the turn to push you out... in which case you've bled away more of your chips.

Best advice, fold preflop.
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  #4  
Old 04-08-2005, 04:48 PM
Iconoclastic Iconoclastic is offline
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Posts: 37
Default Re: Bad push?

7xBB sounds like a Push/Fold preflop. You simply won't have any FE afterwards.
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  #5  
Old 04-08-2005, 04:58 PM
fnord_too fnord_too is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 672
Default Re: Bad push?

Push or fold pre flop.

Flop push is fine, you need to get some chips and that is a great opportunity.
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  #6  
Old 04-08-2005, 05:27 PM
betgo betgo is offline
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Posts: 792
Default Re: Bad push?

As the other players said, this is push/fold preflop, probably push.

I like the push on the flop. You had some chance of winning if called. Having the low end of the straight is not ideal, since a T or 9 is not going to win it for you.
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  #7  
Old 04-08-2005, 05:56 PM
ornthnooth ornthnooth is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spring Lake Park, MN
Posts: 5
Default Re: Bad push? but what if......

Because of his chips status any hand he chooses to play is a push/fold situation preflop, but what if his chip situation were different?
Suppose average stack? (25 to 35K ish)

or a monster stack? (table leader)

I would imagine that with a large stack that semi-bluff push/ check raise would be okay, or is that too aggressive?

With a medium sized stack, a standard preflop raise could put a good size chunk of your stack in the pot (5%-10%), and then the play from the flop on is difficult with the draw. However, I think that it's necessary to raise preflop to chase out hands like your opponent had, define their hands, and ensure future action when you hold monsters.

This type of situation has gotten me into many a trouble, but it seems that it is the bread and butter of stronger players.

Help.
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