Let the berating begin.... KK on the button, fold on the flop - Page 3

beginner · #21 04-06-2005, 05:38 PM

3-bet flop, you have an overpair and K hi flush draw!

Pil Sung Do · #22 04-06-2005, 05:40 PM

First off, this was not a joke, bakku. I made this fold.
Second, 85% of the time, I would reraise and see what happens. This was one of those times where my read said that my hand was no good. And my draw wasn't either.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, CO raises, Hero folds, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 has Kh Ts (one pair, kings).
CO has Jh Tc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins 12.50 BB.

TheHip41 · #23 04-06-2005, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm posting both here and in the micro limits forum. I'd like to get opinions from both. Only real read is that SB is loose and will chase just about anything.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, CO raises, Hero folds, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

You actually folded the second nut flush draw and an overpair in a huge pot on the flop?

Worst fold ever.

You are weak tight.

Chris Dow · #24 04-06-2005, 05:47 PM

I'm not seeing how your draw was no good (flush draw looks good to me, if the As was out it would have made a pair of aces and called the river imo). There are no situations where this is a good fold online. Don't try to learn how to make big reads and big folds at these stakes, what a terrible habit or even occasional occurance.

TheHip41 · #25 04-06-2005, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, this was not a joke, bakku. I made this fold.
Second, 85% of the time, I would reraise and see what happens. This was one of those times where my read said that my hand was no good. And my draw wasn't either.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)

[/ QUOTE ]

You are playing 1/2.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

SeaEagle · #26 04-06-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Second, 85% of the time, I would reraise and see what happens. This was one of those times where my read said that my hand was no good. And my draw wasn't either.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not that I believe in playing from results, but even in this case your draw WAS good. You need to move the 85% to 100% and trust your read less.

PuertoKid · #27 04-06-2005, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, this was not a joke, bakku. I made this fold.
Second, 85% of the time, I would reraise and see what happens. This was one of those times where my read said that my hand was no good. And my draw wasn't either.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, CO raises, Hero folds, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 has Kh Ts (one pair, kings).
CO has Jh Tc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins 12.50 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

The results are irrelevant. Let me ask: in retrospect, do you think the fold was right? If you were in the same situation again, how would you play it on each street?

shant · #28 04-06-2005, 06:00 PM

How about we let this post fade away into the archives and never speak about making a fold like this on a flop like this again?

admiralfluff · #29 04-06-2005, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This was one of those times where my read said that my hand was no good. And my draw wasn't either.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Only real read is that SB is loose and will chase just about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, this was not a joke, bakku. I made this fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't know if I can bring myself to believe that.

Also, your results only show that you made a terrible fold.

Pil Sung Do · #30 04-06-2005, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are playing 1/2.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain. I folded (right or wrong) before I was heavily invested in a pot that I felt I was not going to win.

If someone has 2 pr or set, I have 11 outs. If someone has the straight , I have 9. If someone has the made flush, I have 9 or 0. If the flush ace is out there, he's not folding either. To me, this hand I had a choice to get out early or go to war with a draw. I chose to get out early this time .

I won't argue if anyone wants to say that this fold is -EV if you did it every time, but I cannot see how keeping myself out of a situation where I may badly overplay/misplay my hand is -EV.

Maybe it's the fact that I've listened to the mantra that "all the other players are idiots, they'll bet anything" and realized that it's complete crap. Sure there are some that are, but the majority have some clue about what they're doing.

The reason I gave this post the title is because I knew that most people (I figured everyone) would think that it was a bad move. And most of the time it is, but I don't see why I have to chase if I'm not comfortable that my hand will be good if I hit. Even at $1/2