Stupid play with Wired Jacks... advice?

[Dj007]

Ill make a quick post on this hand..
$100 NL 0.5/1 Villian hasnt played barely any hands at all.
4 limpers, hero is in BB with JJ, hero raises to $5.
Villian in MP calls. all other fold.

FLOP
7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets $ 8
Villian raises to $16, hero calls

Turn 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Villian bets $25, Hero calls

River A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets $15, Villian calls.

Hero shows J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villian shows 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I know I played this poorly but how can you tell when he doesnt just have two tens? Advice would be appreciated.

[swolfe]

any reads? also, try to include stack sizes...

PF: raise was too small...make it 8 or 10

Flop: your bet was too small, bet the pot or close to it

his min-raise looked more like he was on a draw and trying to get checked to on the turn. when he bets the turn you can put him on a made hand (since no draws made it). TT doesn't raise an EP pre-flop raiser that bets out unless you've been getting out of line.

nice blocking bet on the river.

your problem with this hand all started from not raising enough pre-flop...

[Dj007]

alright I see your point. Thanks for the compliment on the blocking bet. I figured that if i checked he was gonna push and the A may scare him into thinking I have AJ. So i bet to save me money :/
I guess I will have to bet more preflop I like to always raise to 5 to hide my hands, I know that when I see someone raise really big I always put them on a non AA or KK as usually youre saying , Im not too excited to get a caller.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I will have to bet more preflop I like to always raise to 5 to hide my hands, I know that when I see someone raise really big I always put them on a non AA or KK as usually youre saying , Im not too excited to get a caller.

[/ QUOTE ]

you should have a standard that hides what your hand is, but it should really be based on the number of limpers which inflates the pot. if your raise isn't big enough relative to the pot, you're giving hands like 87s a good price to call...i'm actually surpised that you only got the one caller.

i usually raise a pot-sized amount which ends up equating to about 2.5 or 3 BB + 1 BB per limper.

[tripdad]

i disagree that the PF raise should be $8 or $10. raising $4 is a tad light, but not by much. i usually just pop it for the pot, and play for the set/overpair.

as for your question, "how can you tell when he just doesn't have 2 tens", you can safely fold to the turn bet. it is clearly a value bet from a player such as you described.

what does he put YOU on, is a good question to ask yourself. he can't put you on anything but a high PP, IMO. therefore, he beats you when he bets. you could also min-raise again on the flop. if he calls or pushes, you can safely check/fold the turn or fold to the push on flop.

cheers!

[MisterKing]

Fold to the turn bet and save your ammo for a situation where you're able to have a better idea of where you stand. Villian's min-raise on the flop reeks of a set or something along those lines, and his limp-call pre-flop helps confirm this notion. It is just too unlikely for him to be limping 99/TT (the only overs you can beat) and then min-raising the flop for you to continue. That said, I am inclined to call the flop bet just to see if you can keep him honest in the future, or spike a jack to get his stack.

[Dj007]

Thanks for your responses - I really feel I am getting better at the advanced concepts of poker now as reading your replys im not just going hmm makes sense I am able to say "I totally understand what each moves represents now"
The reraise preflop I think would have saved me a huge headache and a turn call.

I see the reasoning in defining my strength while bets are relatively cheaper then turn/river where i would still be in the dark unless the J hits. However, what if i get reraised again? (say the min, not a push)

My preflop play I thought raising to $5 was big enough as pot was $4.50 coming to me. I REALLY like the 2-3xBB + 1BB per limper idea, that really makes sense as it hides my hand still yet works to eliminate odds for drawing hands.

I did notice that when I raise 3x BB say to $3 that as people call everyone next to act always calls (smart) cuz the odds are insane (I know i always do)

thanks for the replies, I will use them