K3 s0000ted... spewing chips or classic SSH?

[Luv2DriveTT]

I think GreyWolfNYC's point was that if you are missapplying SSHE concepts then you are spewing chips, and he is right. It is the classic missapplication that we have seen again and again on these boards, and countless times when playing against some players as well. When I forst got the book I missapplied the concepts just like you did here as well, so don't sweat it.... we all go through a learning curve. Hopefully you will come out on the top end of the curve over time.

I know him personally, and you are right that he leans to the side of HEPFAP, or even more accuratly Middle Limit Hold'em style. But it really is little different from SSHE, there are no new concepts or ideas presented in that book, its just better applied knowlege for the low limit player.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[GreywolfNYC]

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I think GreyWolfNYC's point was that if you are missapplying SSHE concepts then you are spewing chips, and he is right. It is the classic missapplication that we have seen again and again on these boards, and countless times when playing against some players as well. When I forst got the book I missapplied the concepts just like you did here as well, so don't sweat it.... we all go through a learning curve. Hopefully you will come out on the top end of the curve over time.

I know him personally, and you are right that he leans to the side of HEPFAP, or even more accuratly Middle Limit Hold'em style. But it really is little different from SSHE, there are no new concepts or ideas presented in that book, its just better applied knowlege for the low limit player.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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Thanks for the compliment, and it is a big one since I consider HEPFAP to be the seminal work on limit hold'em. And Ciaffone's book is excellent too. But I beg to differ about it being "little different" from SSHE. As you and I have discussed, I think here are some problems inherent with SSHE, fundamental flaws actually, that will get you into a world of trouble in the games that I play in, for example.
I do not assume, ever, that everyone at the table is a moron unless and until they prove it to me. And in my experience, when you play at 10-20, 15-30 and upwards you'e going to run into a tougher, trickier breed of cat. And you'll run into plenty of thinking maniacs. If you try and use the some of the concepts that are in Miller's book against these people you are going to get shellacked.
I'm not going to rehash the play of the OP's hand here as others have provided some insightful comments.
And I'm not going to dignify or validate that moron who threw an obscenity my way. If he were in my neighborhood he'd be gargling in the toilet right now.

[Luv2DriveTT]

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I think here are some problems inherent with SSHE, fundamental flaws actually, that will get you into a world of trouble in the games that I play in, for example.

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This is a lot lower than the games you play in [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[MisterKing]

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I think there are some problems inherent with SSHE, fundamental flaws actually, that will get you into a world of trouble in the games that I play in, for example.


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As TT pointed out, you apparently are not playing 2/4 or 3/6 online, so your comment is irrelevant for the hand under discussion. The authors did not arrive at the recommendations in SSH lightly, and for you to say that they are somehow wrong for truly small stakes games will require some back up material. Frankly, swooping in here and chiding me for not playing 2/4 the way you might play 15/30 (given the hand I posted was a mistake in either) is not productive.

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I do not assume, ever, that everyone at the table is a moron unless and until they prove it to me.

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Again, you're clearly out of touch with 2/4 and 3/6 online games. I don't go in assuming lunacy by everyone either, but there can be no question that the level of credit we "owe" a complete unknown player is fairly low until shown otherwise. Data-mining tools such as PokerEdge, PokerTracker, and PlayerView all help players (incl. myself) "know" my opponents before I'm in a hand with them, so to some extent this is a non-issue.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
As TT pointed out, you apparently are not playing 2/4 or 3/6 online, so your comment is irrelevant for the hand under discussion. The authors did not arrive at the recommendations in SSH lightly, and for you to say that they are somehow wrong for truly small stakes games will require some back up material. Frankly, swooping in here and chiding me for not playing 2/4 the way you might play 15/30 (given the hand I posted was a mistake in either) is not productive.

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This hand was played badly and it has nothing to do with the size of the betting limits.
As far as your statement that my comment is "irrelevant for the hand under discussion" you're dead wrong. And eventually you will understand why when you carry the bad habits you've made with you into limits where the losses are bigger and the players tougher.
By the way, like most people I started playing in 2-4 games, in my case live 2-4 games. And I still stand by what I said about a lot of the advice in SSHE being flawed. This is not the first time I've said it here and its not the first time I've come under fire for criticizing the current sacred text.