Do you lay this one down?

[gulebjorn]

Think i played this one pretty bad...

Interpoker's 0.50-1$ NL, 5-handed 6 max table. Button is on a lucky run of cards, catching a lot, but could be stealing some too, nobody likes to call him down anymore. Not too agressive table, lots of talking going on, everyone wants to show off his strategy knowledge. Except for me, i have no knowledge of these things, as you will soon find out.

I have KK in SB with 92.50$
Two folds, button limps, i raise to 4, BB folds, button calls

Flop (9$): 8 6 7 rainbow
I bet 9, button calls

Turn (27$): 9
I bet 10, he calls

River: (47$): 9
I check, he bets 10$, i call

final pot: 64$

Edit: do you lay this one down is probably the wrong question. What did i do wrong, what would you do and why is probably a better question.

[ohead]

Id probarly check the turn and hope that he's stupid enough to give me a check on the river, I dont think your first mistake is calling on the river but betting on the turn, alot of people call raises with JT, TT or even QT, as happens with A9, T9 etc.. which has you beat pretty bad on the turn. If he does have two overcards or Ax missed he's not likely to bet the pot on the turn, atleast not at these stakes.

So no, the river is past the mistake, and no, I wouldnt call the river.

[kongo_totte]

You played this fine IMO. Checking the turn is asking to be bluffed out of the pot. In fact, I´m probably betting more like 12 on the turn. If he likes to chase w/ gut shot draws, you should be able to win back your money soon enough (disregarding the possible 5 5). On the river, you must call getting that prize. I´m sure you are behind more often than not, but not often enough to fold.

[FlipPoker]

I think you played it fine. It seems like he is chasing a draw. You have a good price on the river call. If he had the nuts, I think he would bet a little more.

[gulebjorn]

Wow, am i feeling good about myself now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I really thought i screwed this up, because i often have problems when hands develop like this.

I'm trying to ban weakness out of my game, but i find it very hard not to go overboard. When i started to play this game, i used to give up the betting if i got called, and very often i was ahead at that point, i was just giving pots away.

But ever since i'm trying to become more agressive, i blow holes in my bankroll on a regular basis, just because i overplay a lot of these hands.

Anyone else have this problem when trying to go from weak-tight to tight-agressive?

Edit: Calling the river probably doesn't have much to do with being TA. Betting the turn 1/3 of the pot probably isn't that wonderful either. See, this stuff confuses me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn (27$): 9
I bet 10, he calls


[/ QUOTE ]

The river is an insta call with those odds.

The turn is a little baffling. What was it you hoped to accomplish by betting this amount here??

[gulebjorn]

Well, the 9 on the turn made a 4-straight. So if he was drawing to a straight with 55 or 99, he made either the straight or trips. If figured 66, 77 or 88 would have re-raised me on the flop.

So what i was trying to do with the 10$ bet on the turn:

a) find out if he made trips or straight, because i thought he would re-raise me, and i could let it go pretty easily and without much losses (at these levels, people don't often see the connection between the pot and a bet. A 10$ bet is a 10$ bet, and i was pretty sure it wouldn't be considered weak enough to try to bluff me out. So if i got reraised, i was 90% sure i was beat)

b)if he didn't make trips or the straight by now, he might be scared enough by the 4-straight to let his hand go if he had a mid-lo PP. Players at Interpoker seem to have made an artform out of chasing pocket pairs right down to the river.

c)if he didn't make trips or the straight and wasn't gonna let go, i was still getting some value out of my kings

d)if i didn't bet, i'd be giving the pot away. I mean, if i'm not betting, i sure as hell am not calling with this board

I'm sure there are many errors to be found in this logic. Please feel free to point them out.

by the way: i said "these levels" because 0.50-1$ is lowest level at IP and it's where the fish are

[jonnejay]

I would have overbet the flop if i played that hand. If he calls i know he has something. I bet hard on the turn also if he calls or raise i fold.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have overbet the flop if i played that hand. If he calls i know he has something. I bet hard on the turn also if he calls or raise i fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's overbetting the flop gonna do that betting the pot istn't? If he's drawing to a straight or trips, his already calling with horrible pot odds, so he obviously doesn't care about that. If he has the straight or trips, you're just giving your money away.

If they call a pot-size bet on a flop like that, i'm really cautious. I'm not giving the pot away yet, but i'm pretty sure betting hard into them on the turn would be a losing play.

1st post eh? Welcome to the forums and thx for the reply.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
c)if he didn't make trips or the straight and wasn't gonna let go, i was still getting some value out of my kings

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you think someone with an underpair is gonna smooth call 10 bucks with a 4 to a straight on the board given the action in this hand already??

I dont.

[ QUOTE ]
find out if he made trips or straight, because i thought he would re-raise me

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, he is either ahead or WAY behind with a 10 (thats if he fears you have raised with a suited connector-J10s) so he calls.

I think a set calls for FH value here and I think its correct. Again he is either Way behind or ahead so why let you push him out of a pot here.

I just dont think a person with a set or any straight is going to believe you have the straight here basically given the Pre flop action.

I certainly wouldnt. \\

I also dont mind giving a free card to an underpair bc I dont think Im gonna be playing for much more in this pot anyway so his implied odds are crap. And hey man its a 2 outer.

Given the call on the flop I really think that turn card ends your hand. I know you dont want to "give up" this hand but....Jeezus with him having position and all your in a horrible spot and remember you only have a pair.