Pac Poker 1 Million-- Did I totally play this wrong?

[unglee]

Big tourny at Pac. About 500 left. Blinds are at 200-400. Hero has 5000 and BB (Villian) has about 8000. Villain seems aggressive, but has been quiet after losing a big hand about 5 hands prior.

Folded to me, and I raise to 800 (I know, should have raised 3x blind, but I was varying my style--dumb of me?). BB reraises to 1200, I call (should I have reraised?).

Flop comes: JT4, all diamonds. I have the A of diamonds in my hand.

BB raises 400, I reraise 800, he calls.

Turn: 6 spades.

BB checks, I push my remaining stack, BB instacalls.

My reasoning: I didn't put him on an overpair, and I thought any A or K would have been an out. A Queen would have given me the straight, and of course, any diamond gives me the A high flush.

Am I an idiot for pushing here? Also, did I give away my hand to him, allowing him to make this scary call?

Results in white:


<font color="white">Villain turns over 77 (no diamond!) and wins all my chips. </font>

[wAzZu24]

So you have AK, right? Im all-in preflop and on the flop.

[MLG]

preflop: his minreraise means one of 2 things. Either he is an idiot, or he is an ok player with AA/KK. So, I think calling is ok here, because if he is the bad player with AA/KK you're in trouble, and against an idiot I'd play the flop. This flop is fabulous for you. He bets out 400, well this confirms the read that he's an idiot, but why raise to just 800 here. Push the flop.

It appears, however, that your opponent is a brain dead fool, so you were probably getting called anyway. That's ok though, you were still ahead with your 17 outs. Too bad you didnt hit.

[unglee]

Thanks MLG. I just needed to know I wasn't being a fool preflop--I guess I should have just pushed the flop. I didn't want to arouse suspicion with the push, but I guess I was fated to lose all my chips cause he was calling all the way. That's (Pacific) Poker, I guess.

[Wu36]

nice avatar.

[rocflight]

Say you're the guy with the black 7's. How do you play this hand? How would you play a black over pair?

Okay, we agree the preflop play is terrible. Should have raised more or maybe smooth called with a big pair.

Now with the board as it was mentioned on the flop, again playing as the guy with the pair, should you lead out? What do you do if the villain makes a smallish raise in relation to the pot size (maybe half the pot)? What hand could you put the him/her on?

In my opinion, small raises are tricky to read. It could be backed by a made flush in which case we're in deep trouble, or it could backed by a hand that has four to the flush like the author of this thread (in which case a small raise is a bad play as MLG suggested, pushing or just calling to catch a card are better plays).

Say we call the reraise on the flop either with top pair or an over pair and a non flush rag card comes up on the turn (smaller than your pair), what should we do then?

I believe in seaon 2 when Paul Phillips won his WPT title, he played a hand with Gus Hansen where he had an over pair of queens and Gus had the A of the flush suit and approximately this situation happened. Paul bet on the flop, Gus reraised (a large amount if I remember it correctly) and Paul called. The difference is, the fourth flush card fell and Paul had to lay his hand down to a large bet from Gus, but he said he would have pushed if the turn was a non flush card. Would this play be correct in our situation considering the competition?

Here is another situation that I would like to get some feedback on:

The situation is I just doubled up with KK by trapping a similar sized small stack to reach average stack of 10000+ with the blinds at 150/300 and ante at 50 I believe. So plenty of room to work with.

I'm in the small blind with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and go to the flop with four limpers plus the BB and the flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. With so many people in the flop and a marginal hand, I check the flop and everyone else checks.

Turn comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], what is my action? I believe I bet either half or 3/4 pot, but in hind sight, my hand was so vulnerable with so many limpers that a bet from first position probably wasn't a good idea. Anyhow, I only get one caller from late position.

The river brings A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], so there're still just the three suited cards on the board. What is my action? Say I check and the villain puts in a pot sized bet, that would be an auto fold, right?

[unglee]

Good response, thanks for bringing it around to the villain's POV. I think a key difference, however, in your example is that Paul Phillips had an overpair. If I'm the villain in my scenario, I'm just looking for a way to get out of this hand, which is why I'm still surprised he called my push. If I'm the villain, and I know I'm going to call a push, why wouldn't I push myself on the turn? I feel like a check-call in that scenario would have to be reserved for some made hand, i.e. the nut flush or a set, or something. But no...it was reserved for black 77. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

For your scenario, I would have played it exactly the same. You have plenty of chips now, and there's no need to waste them on an unstellar hand like you're describing. My guess is that the villain had the A spades, was chasing the flush, and pulled his A on the river. Check it to him, and if he bets, get out of there and bust him later.

[rocflight]

Yeah, playing an under pair like the villain did is bad because there are a greater range of hands that could beat his hand. However, by how things occurred on the turn, he could still have a reasonable guess that his hand is best. Because you only min raised on the flop, he can't figure you to have paired the J or T that was on the board so he obviously pegged you to be on the draw for the flush. Now, since you raised preflop, he has to know you probably have 2 over cards to his 7's, which gives you 4 extra outs and with the broadway cards on the flop, likely 7 extra outs to beat him (4 to pair up minus the flush cards and 3 to make the straight minus the flush card), so with the 9 flush cards, a total of 16 outs to beat him if you're drawing.

He probably didn't lead out pushing because he wasn't completely sure if you were drawing or not.
I think by you pushing, he made that decision that you were on the draw and thus took his perceived ~2:1 favorite to the river. Still, his line is quite risky and is one I probably wouldn't take.

As for my situation, he actually called with black 4's on the turn and rivered a straight.

[Paul Phillips]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe in seaon 2 when Paul Phillips won his WPT title, he played a hand with Gus Hansen where he had an over pair of queens and Gus had the A of the flush suit and approximately this situation happened. Paul bet on the flop, Gus reraised (a large amount if I remember it correctly) and Paul called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gus bet, and *I* raised a large amount. He called, then bet 800K on the turn with the nuts.

[topout]

From you opponents POV -
If you had the flush made and you were content to play it slow on the flop, why push with a turn that clearly didn't help your opponent catch up?
If you had pocket 6s you wouldn't value raise on the turn with that board.
So what can villain think the turn possibly changed? Did you suddenly have to rush to the bathroom?
That it left you with 1/2 the % win you'd had on the previous street which made you panic bet seems the most likely possibility.

topout